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Suicide: Selfish Act or Deserved Release? So, is suicide a selfish act, or is it each person's right to end their lives if they are miserable emotionally, physically, spiritually, etc.?
In your opinion, what makes life not worth living anymore? | |
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suicide is a very angry act..
people with chronic disease do not commit suicide.. the choose to bring the suffering to an end... | |
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Camus start The Myth of Sisyphus off by writing:
"[t]here is but one truly serious philosophical problem and that is suicide. Judging whether life is or is not worth living amounts to answering the fundamental question of philosophy. All the rest … comes afterwards." Hard to get happy after that.  | |
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AnotherLoverHolenYoHead said: So, is suicide a selfish act, or is it each person's right to end their lives if they are miserable emotionally, physically, spiritually, etc.?
In your opinion, what makes life not worth living anymore? I think it's selfish. I actually don't think anyone has the right to do it, but I know that's a bit extreme for most.  | |
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It's both actually... it's a selfish act for those who stay behind (the person's family) but, is a deserved release for the one committing suicide. | |
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AnotherLoverHolenYoHead said: So, is suicide a selfish act, or is it each person's right to end their lives if they are miserable emotionally, physically, spiritually, etc.?
In your opinion, what makes life not worth living anymore? I'm a bit torn. In general I think it's the most irrational act you can commit. When it comes to being in chronic physical pain...I hesitate to form an opinion. But yes, I do realize that contemplating it for most is contemplation of another type of pain: emotional pain. This post not for the wimp contingent. All whiny wusses avert your eyes. | |
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Moonbeam said: I think it's selfish. I actually don't think anyone has the right to do it, but I know that's a bit extreme for most.
You know I adore you... but how can you not have the right to take your own life? It is yours, after all. I mean, like, where is the sun? | |
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To me if you don't hurt anyone else.You have the right to do what you want with your own life.No man should tell another man how to live his life if he doesn't hurt others. | |
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Natsume said: Moonbeam said: I think it's selfish. I actually don't think anyone has the right to do it, but I know that's a bit extreme for most.
You know I adore you... but how can you not have the right to take your own life? It is yours, after all. But in my belief, the only one who has the right to take away life is the one who gave you life in the first place- and that ain't me! | |
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Moonbeam said: But in my belief, the only one who has the right to take away life is the one who gave you life in the first place- and that ain't me!
So it's okay for my parents to kill me? I mean, like, where is the sun? | |
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Natsume said: Moonbeam said: But in my belief, the only one who has the right to take away life is the one who gave you life in the first place- and that ain't me!
So it's okay for my parents to kill me? No, because they didn't give you life either, in my opinion. | |
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Moonbeam said: No, because they didn't give you life either, in my opinion.
I'm so glad you said 'in my opinion' because if you didn't, I would have permission to rip ya a new one.
Moon  I mean, like, where is the sun? | |
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Natsume said: Moonbeam said: No, because they didn't give you life either, in my opinion.
I'm so glad you said 'in my opinion' because if you didn't, I would have permission to rip ya a new one.
Moon Of course it's just my belief.  But you asked me to explain, so I did. | |
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I wouldn't call it selfish, even though that's what many of the friends and family left behind might feel about it...
It is such a delicate thing... I've lost quite a few friends and family to suicide *deep sigh* ... It's often so complex... I couldn't put a value judgement on it though... the circumstances which precede suicide are often quite diverse... and while it may seem like an irrational act to some, sometimes it is planned out in a very real and rational way... it can be both rational and irrational... depending on the person, and the situation. It's just heartbreaking whichever way you look at it... how tragic it is that people can feel so isolated, depressed or apathetic (or any other range of emotions) that they feel this is their best option. (evidently I'm not referring to Euthanasia here, that's a whole other issue) I believe in life too much to see suicide (any form) as a good option for anyone.. it's not something I feel I could ever do.. it just isn't in me. At the same time, I would find it very difficult to look in the face of someone who is in chronic chronic pain or who is terminally ill,(whose shoes I've never walked in, and whose daily hell I've never lived) and instruct them on what's right for them to do... that is their decision, and their decision alone... All one can do is be there for those in their times of need... *sigh* . [This message was edited Thu Oct 10 22:04:16 PDT 2002 by Diva] --»You're my favourite moment, you're my Saturday... | |
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Moonbeam said: Of course it's just my belief.
But you asked me to explain, so I did. That I did... and thank you for humoring me. I really appreciate it - I tend to get angry with people who disagree with me (who doesn't? lol) but I can't get mad at you, no matter how much I try! Just kidding!  I mean, like, where is the sun? | |
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Diva said: I wouldn't call it selfish, even though that's what many of the friends and family left behind might feel about it...
It is such a delicate thing... I've lost quite a few friends and family to suicide *deep sigh* ... It's often so complex... I couldn't put a value judgement on it though... the circumstances which precede suicide are often quite diverse... and while it may seem like an irrational act to some, sometimes it is planned out in a very real and rational way... it can be both rational and irrational... depending on the person, and the situation. It's just heartbreaking whichever way you look at it... how tragic it is that people can feel so isolated, depressed or apathetic (or any other range of emotions) that they feel this is their best option. (evidently I'm not referring to Euthanasia here, that's a whole other issue) I believe in life too much to see suicide (any form) as a good option for anyone.. it's not something I feel I could ever do.. it just isn't in me. At the same time, I would find it very difficult to look in the face of someone who is in chronic chronic pain or who is terminally ill,(who's shoes I've never walked in, and who's daily hell I've never lived) and instruct them on what's right for them to do... that is their decision, and their decision alone... All one can do is be there for those in their times of need... *sigh* I just love you.  | |
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AnotherLoverHolenYoHead said: So, is suicide a selfish act, or is it each person's right to end their lives if they are miserable emotionally, physically, spiritually, etc.?
In your opinion, what makes life not worth living anymore? If you are thinking about 
http://www.metanoia.org/suicide/ http://www.metanoia.org/suicide/ http://www.metanoia.org/suicide/ http://www.metanoia.org/suicide/ http://www.metanoia.org/suicide/ http://www.metanoia.org/suicide/ http://www.metanoia.org/suicide/ http://www.metanoia.org/suicide/ http://www.metanoia.org/suicide/ | |
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No, I'm not going to kill myself...although I do plan to leave the Org permanently within the week, whenever ian/ben/matt delete my account. This is just a question I'm asking. | |
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AnotherLoverHolenYoHead said: No, I'm not going to kill myself...although I do plan to leave the Org permanently within the week, whenever ian/ben/matt delete my account. This is just a question I'm asking.
 I mean, like, where is the sun? | |
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AnotherLoverHolenYoHead said: No, I'm not going to kill myself...although I do plan to leave the Org permanently within the week, whenever ian/ben/matt delete my account. This is just a question I'm asking.
Again? Why? When I read about the evils of drinking, I gave up reading. | |
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Diva said: I wouldn't call it selfish, even though that's what many of the friends and family left behind might feel about it...
It is such a delicate thing... I've lost quite a few friends and family to suicide *deep sigh* ... It's often so complex... I couldn't put a value judgement on it though... the circumstances which precede suicide are often quite diverse... and while it may seem like an irrational act to some, sometimes it is planned out in a very real and rational way... it can be both rational and irrational... depending on the person, and the situation. It's just heartbreaking whichever way you look at it... how tragic it is that people can feel so isolated, depressed or apathetic (or any other range of emotions) that they feel this is their best option. (evidently I'm not referring to Euthanasia here, that's a whole other issue) I believe in life too much to see suicide (any form) as a good option for anyone.. it's not something I feel I could ever do.. it just isn't in me. At the same time, I would find it very difficult to look in the face of someone who is in chronic chronic pain or who is terminally ill,(whose shoes I've never walked in, and whose daily hell I've never lived) and instruct them on what's right for them to do... that is their decision, and their decision alone... All one can do is be there for those in their times of need... *sigh* . [This message was edited Thu Oct 10 22:04:16 PDT 2002 by Diva] Well said Diva  When I read about the evils of drinking, I gave up reading. | |
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depends , i dont know...its a very extreme act esp. if the person(s) has been thru alot of shit and dont think they got many options left. | |
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I must say one thing though, unless you have suffered from real "depression" it is hard to understand why someone might not want to live. Real depression isnt just feeling sad or unhappy, it is far worse than that.
Depression can make a person feel like they are sinking out of control. They feel helpless. You cannot judge them unless you have been in their shoes. These are not feelimgs that can be turned on or off like a childs tantrum. When I read about the evils of drinking, I gave up reading. | |
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bkw said: AnotherLoverHolenYoHead said: No, I'm not going to kill myself...although I do plan to leave the Org permanently within the week, whenever ian/ben/matt delete my account. This is just a question I'm asking.
Again? Why? "Again"--as if I'm some Org drama queen throwing a fit... 
You know, if I thought you actually gave a shit, bkw, I'd probably tell you. | |
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AnotherLoverHolenYoHead said: bkw said: AnotherLoverHolenYoHead said: No, I'm not going to kill myself...although I do plan to leave the Org permanently within the week, whenever ian/ben/matt delete my account. This is just a question I'm asking.
Again? Why? "Again"--as if I'm some Org drama queen throwing a fit...
You know, if I thought you actually gave a shit, bkw, I'd probably tell you. I wouldnt have asked if I didnt give a shit. Have you ever seen me ask anyone else this question? I (maybe mistakenly) thought you had left the org once before. Sorry if I'm wrong...sheesh.  When I read about the evils of drinking, I gave up reading. | |
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You are not incorrect thinking I left once--more like, went on hiatus. | |
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Diva said: I wouldn't call it selfish, even though that's what many of the friends and family left behind might feel about it...
It is such a delicate thing... I've lost quite a few friends and family to suicide *deep sigh* ... It's often so complex... I couldn't put a value judgement on it though... the circumstances which precede suicide are often quite diverse... and while it may seem like an irrational act to some, sometimes it is planned out in a very real and rational way... it can be both rational and irrational... depending on the person, and the situation. It's just heartbreaking whichever way you look at it... how tragic it is that people can feel so isolated, depressed or apathetic (or any other range of emotions) that they feel this is their best option.[This message was edited Thu Oct 10 22:04:16 PDT 2002 by Diva] That's what's irrational about it. It's obvious when people feel depressed, isolated and apathetic that they're not in a healthy enough emotional state to think with mental clarity about their decision and/or situation. I think the vast majority of people just don't understand what type of utter emotional stupor it takes to seriously think about taking one's own life - and I'm not talking about those in chronic physical pain in this instance. And then there are those instances where the person decides in the spur of the moment to take his/her life. Like a man I knew. To me, that's even more irrational than the usual planning of it. I agree that these situations are complex, but outside of the instance of taking one's life because of intense chronic physical pain, I don't believe any of them are thinking clearly ... I mean, how can they be if we agree that they're just emotionally NOT healthy? Something that could never possibly happen, and this may be a bit morbid, but: it would be extremely enlightening to find out whether or not many of the people who committed suicide wanted to reverse their decision while in the process of dying. ` [This message was edited Wed May 28 20:19:30 PDT 2003 by Supernova] This post not for the wimp contingent. All whiny wusses avert your eyes. | |
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Supernova said: Diva said: I wouldn't call it selfish, even though that's what many of the friends and family left behind might feel about it...
It is such a delicate thing... I've lost quite a few friends and family to suicide *deep sigh* ... It's often so complex... I couldn't put a value judgement on it though... the circumstances which precede suicide are often quite diverse... and while it may seem like an irrational act to some, sometimes it is planned out in a very real and rational way... it can be both rational and irrational... depending on the person, and the situation. It's just heartbreaking whichever way you look at it... how tragic it is that people can feel so isolated, depressed or apathetic (or any other range of emotions) that they feel this is their best option.[This message was edited Thu Oct 10 22:04:16 PDT 2002 by Diva] That's what's irrational about it. It's obvious when people feel depressed, isolated and apathetic that they're not in a healthy enough emotional state to think with mental clarity about their decision and/or situation. I think the vast majority of people just don't understand what type of utter emotional stupor it takes to seriously think about taking one's own life - and I'm not talking about those in chronic physical pain in this instance. And then there are those instances where the person decides in the spur of the moment to take his/her life. Like a man I knew. To me, that's even more irrational than the usual planning of it. I agree that these situations are complex, but outside of the instance of taking one's life because of intense chronic pain, I don't think any of them are thinking clearly ... I mean, how can they be if we agree that they're just emotionally NOT healthy? Something that could never possibly happen, and this may be a bit morbid, but: it would be extremely enlightening to find out whether or not many of the people who committed suicide wanted to reverse their decision while in the process of dying. Extreme pain of any sort doesn't lend itself to rational thinking--only to the willingness to do whatever it takes to make the pain end. As far as your morbid question: I think it would be quite possible to find out what you ask. You'd just ask (well into the future, and only with their permission/cooperation) those who'd attempted suicide unsuccessfully about what their thoughts were just after the attempt and/or before they lost consciousness. For example, I attempted suicide at the age of 18 and I attempted to drive myself to the E.R., but passed out before I could get there...so if I was asked to participate in a study like that, I'd do it in a second and relay that information. I bet many others like me exist..... [This message was edited Thu Oct 10 23:03:30 PDT 2002 by AnotherLoverHolenYoHead] | |
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AnotherLoverHolenYoHead said: You are not incorrect thinking I left once--more like, went on hiatus.
edited due to issue being cleared up via orgnote [This message was edited Thu Oct 10 23:11:16 PDT 2002 by bkw] When I read about the evils of drinking, I gave up reading. | |
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Moonbeam said: (...)I think it's selfish. I actually don't think anyone has the right to do it, but I know that's a bit extreme for most.(...)
Moonbeam, you talk about things that you have no ideas | |
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