In relationships and matters of the heart, is honesty all that matters? Or can you be faulted for not reading between the lines and sensing the other party's feelings have changed?

If an understanding is gained up front about what kind of relationship you're having with someone, can you be wrong for sticking to the script?

Can you really be wrong?

..
[Edited 10/4/07 13:41pm]

violator said:

Come on, now. You really expect us to help you out if you're cryptic like this? Define wrong, for starters!

And if honesty were all that mattered, corruption and evil wouldn't exist. Untrue?

violator said:

Listen, if you are in a relationship for 5 years and have absolutely no clue as to the needs, wants or desires of your partner, 99.99999% chance you are a man There really is no excuse for that shit no matter how connected to your cave you are

INSATIABLE said:

Okay...

I've been seeing someone for several months now. Upfront I established, and she agreed, that we wouldn't be exclusive. I made it clear that I didn't want and wasn't ready for a relationship. She's been fine with this, as far as I could tell. And to be honest, because of the understanding we had in the beginning, I wasn't really trying to read between the lines.

Yesterday, she calls me half hysterical and accuses me of being vacant and insensitive because I told her that I was going out with someone else this weekend. The way she made me feel was almost like I was cheating on her.

I don't know... I feel like this insensitive asshole now, but I really don't think I did anything wrong. I mean, we did have an understanding upfront... but it's not my goal to hurt anyone and I don't want to be dismissive of her feelings just because I'm not tied to her.

I don't know...

Honesty is most certainly not all that matters.

violator said:

If you really were oblivious to the fact that it would hurt her to know you're seeing someone else because you told her up front you would be, then no, you didn't do anything wrong. But now that you know how she feels about it, you have an honest choice to make.

violator said:

So you hung up with her before establishing some sort of understanding? Without explaining what you've just told us, and without getting her acknowledgement that you two were never supposed to be exclusive?

i'd rather know about it in that kind of situation, but everyone's different i guess.

I think honesty within set paramiters is what's important. That sounds like a particularly highbrow Morrisey B-Side*, but it seems to be true if you want to avoid trivial silliness or a particularly heavy soulrape. Again, anyone giving advice is a pious cunt and should be huckled from their illusional lofty grandstand with holy force. All that should be spoken to help others is tales of experience with a warning attached that every situation is different. So do what you think will cause the least amount of hurt to the least amount of people. Try not to be so selfish. Believe people can be good beyond their perceptions and desires. And remember to duck. Always remember when to duck. That's all the advice I have for anyone. Jesus Christ help my children.

*I acknowledge the death of the B-Side.

CarrieMpls said:

I didn't have to tell her at all, but I almost think I did it to see if we still had the same understanding. To see how she'd react. As I'm typing this out, it sounds pretty shitty, but I really thought at the time that I should have been honest. Or more like, I felt that there's no need to lie or hide anything.

I already made the choice. I told her that I didn't think we should continue to see each other as we have been, but I wanted her friendship. She basically told me I could keep my friendship and few other things...

And I feel genuinely horrible about it all...
[Edited 10/4/07 14:56pm]

Have you been pretty much exclusive in the relationship since its onset (regardless of what you told her) or have you continuely been seeing others throughout?

If you say you are not looking for commitment at the beginning of a relationship before the two of you have time to develop feelings for each other - that's one thing. But relationships are meant to grow - and if you have pretty much been exclusive with her up to this point and then do a 180, I can see why she would be upset .

These kinds of understandings are usually based more on reason than on emotion, and that's what makes them so difficult to live by since the world of relationships is ultimately ruled by emotion. It might sound good to start out slowly by not fully committing to each other and see where it leads, but then infatuation comes creeping in and jealousy follows closely as its shadow, and suddenly it's a whole different ballgame.

I was in a very similar situation a couple of years ago. My heart tried to listen to my mind, which was trying to keep in line with the agreement. But then when something happened between me and another woman, my heart responded badly and so did the heart of the woman I had the agreement with. Her mind was still okay with it, but that was a poor consolation since we were both suffering.

There's just no easy way to handle these things.

INSATIABLE said:

We gained an understanding before the call ended. Although not the one I'd hoped for. And yes, I did most certainly bring up the fact that we agreed in the beginning that we wouldn't be exclusive.

She didn't seem to feel that mattered much. She thought I should have been more attuned to her feelings over time and the fact that things had changed for her. To that end, she could be right. Maybe I ignored some obvious signs because of what I felt was a pretty clear understanding of what we were.

Number23 said:

Good stuff..

MuaPetahl said:

For the most part, yes. I'd gone out with a few people, but nothing serious. But she didn't know that. In fact, as far as I knew, she could have assumed that I'd been seeing any number of people during that time. It really wasn't discussed. And that's what kept me secure in the notion that she was okay with what we'd agreed to.

I'd kinda felt like she did a 180 on me...

retina said:

...as I'm finding out...

violator said:

That was the least important part of my post though, but whatever...

violator said:

IMO, you did nothing wrong here. You had an agreement and it sounds like she is the one not being upfront with you if you didn't know she'd be flipping out at the thought of you going to see someone else. I'd be flipping out if I had to share you to though

violator said:

Well that is her fault for not making things clear

SupaFunkyOrgangrinderSexy said:

so your basicly shagging two lasses and in a veiled way showing off about it with a rhetorical post,disguised as being deep and emotional heheh

we,ve all done that to get to the good stuff!

good on ya son!

so no chance of taking BOTH those chicks away together??!!-maybe she'd like that!

Like we talked about already, I feel that you've done nothing wrong. You were honest with her from day one but like so many women, she probably just went along with it thinking that you'd eventually come around and would want to be with her. You don't. Oh well, she needs to move on and I would suggest that you let her go since you're not giving her what she needs and it's just hurting her. Trying to appease her to try and make her happy when you're not really wanting anything serious with her is not helping her at all.

People need to understand that yes, feelings can develop over time but feelings also sometimes don't and there is nothing wrong with that.

Go have a good time with the other person this weekend.

JustErin said:

It was you!

SupaFunkyOrgangrinderSexy said:

Oh no. no.

I'm another stupid girl wishing for more with another boy.
[Edited 10/4/07 18:47pm]

You did nothing wrong: she chose to keep her true agenda from you. That's not your fault.

I value honesty over everything else in any type of relationship, friendship or otherwise.

violator said:

Haaaaa!!!!!

As a woman, I have to laugh at you for falling for that open relationship crap. The one emotion women have that is closest to God, is "I am a JEALOUS GOD." A woman, even a man would say s/he is all for an open relationship, but you NEVER NEVER NEVER NEVER NEVER NEVER.... And let me repeat again, NEVER tell the other person you're going out with someone else. Just say, "I'm hanging with friends," or "I'm busy that night." Or better yet, DON'T ANSWER THE PHONE!!!!!"

Now, you're in a predicament. Have a heart to heart with Girl X. It's going to hurt her and make you feel like crap, but please reiterate to the woman. "Upfront, I established we wouldn't be exclusive and you agreed. Are you changing your mind about our oral contract, which is binding in a court of law?" Turn the tables on her. Be firm in your decision to end or continue this relationship, yet compassionate about her feelings. I can't believe I'm giving a man advice how to talk to a woman, but I hate to see men pulled into relationships they don't want to be in when they always END BADLY!!!!!

I feel for you, dude!!!

incognito said:

First of all, I am shocked you are responding to this topic.

second, you're asking him to be dishonest. If people agree to an open relationship, then going out with someone else should not be a problem. Been there, done that. I did not get jealous. I do not get jealous, period.

violator said:

it depends, I'm finding there are more grey areas then there are right and wrong.

incognito said:

I tried not telling her. I told her that I had plans Friday and immediately asked her if she wanted to get together on Saturday. But she pressed the issue and I told her. The last thing I wanted to be was a liar. If I didn't tell her and someone we know saw me out with this other person then it appears that I tried to hide something.

For better or worse, I thought being honest was the best thing to do.