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PrintableMy ass ain't touching the religion thing at the moment, (shit, Phil  ), so let me throw some recent contemplation into the mix:
I think (or, agree; it's not like I thought this up) that our obsession with health and security comes from fear born of prosperity. Most of us reading this have SO much time, so many options, so much wealth. . .we're basically panicked about it. We're overwhelmed, confused, and afraid. And so, we worry about the wrong things. We're obsessing about carbs and herbs, fasts and colonics, prions and toxins, drugs and terrorists, stock markets and Chinese imports. . .etcetera. At the same time, we're letting our freedoms be eroded, we're destroying the planet, and we're allowing ourselves to become disconnected from the welfare of others to the extent that we are endangering our own. I have NO idea how to shift our priorities back in the right direction. And I will say this much about religion: it's not helping us. oh noes, prince is gonna soo me!!1! | |
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INSATIABLE said: Spookymuffin said:  I'm seeing fucking Prince tomorrow night.
I believe, and have always believed, that labels are ridiculous. Regardless of any religios message, what seperate us as Humans from Frogs and Dung Beetles is the fact that we are all individual and capable of deep, sentient thought. In attempting to understand and box up everyone like we do "lesser" animals that are not so complex, we attempt to lower ourselves to their level. Doing this, and being labeled, stifles the creativity of our individual leaving us in our current social climate (at least in Britain) of unfriendly, quiet depression with only consumerism and alcohol (wonder why we have a "binge-drinking" (hate that term) culture?). You better know that the US is right up there with you with personal debt, people living on credit, and severe alcoholism (if not surpassing you by the sheer difference in population comparison alone). Our media, our voices, and our styles might be notably different, but we'll always be fraternal twins in that we're superpowers with governments and private corporations bent on keeping us occupied by selling us mundane thought wrapped up in shiny packaging and huge vehicles/televisions which amuse us enough to take us away from arranging a progressive, collective thought. Our houses may be smashed closer than ever before, but our ancestors were never as alienated from each other as we are. Class structure, the economy, the "news", it's all shit I'm afraid I can't talk about tonight.  Is this for a paper? When is it due? And have fun with the delusional midget tomorrow, consumer whore.  
I'd say the British are too cynical to fall for the whole "shiny packaged" corporate stuff, and we definitely do not trust out Government. You only have to look at the current Northern Rock fiasco to see that.
The living-off-credit statement is certainly true - I already am.
I'd also say that our news, whilst it is changing to a more "American" format, still has its nice, cynical side (Channel 4) that keeps news reliable and fairly good, in my opinion. Obviously people will disagree with me vehemently .
I think Brits and Americans are both "consumer whores" but we're different kinds. Brits are suckers for nice, modern houses and up-market cars. Americans love their gadgets (iPhone - it will completely flop here, mark my words - there is zero interest - Sidekick, Blackberry; Blackberries are used for convenience, but everything else we can live without perfectly happily), BIG cars and suburbian lifestyle. Brits are far too self-absorbed (a quality I intermittently admire and despise, so would rather it didn't change) to enjoy suburban lifestyle. Desperate Housewives would never happen here, for instance. Not until you're 75 and on a pension, anyway. | |
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HereToRockYourWorld said: My ass ain't touching the religion thing at the moment, (shit, Phil
), so let me throw some recent contemplation into the mix:
I think (or, agree; it's not like I thought this up) that our obsession with health and security comes from fear born of prosperity. Most of us reading this have SO much time, so many options, so much wealth. . .we're basically panicked about it. We're overwhelmed, confused, and afraid. And so, we worry about the wrong things. We're obsessing about carbs and herbs, fasts and colonics, prions and toxins, drugs and terrorists, stock markets and Chinese imports. . .etcetera. At the same time, we're letting our freedoms be eroded, we're destroying the planet, and we're allowing ourselves to become disconnected from the welfare of others to the extent that we are endangering our own. I have NO idea how to shift our priorities back in the right direction. And I will say this much about religion: it's not helping us. Let me make this abundantly clear: I do not want this thread in politics and religion, and mods, if you put it there I will rip your cunts out and fill the org with child porn until I am banned. That said, I think religion (do not crucify me for this), particularly Islam, is hampering political climates and western society BEYOND belief right now. I look at Islam as an unfortunate victim of Globalisation. It, as an institution, was not ready for globalisation and all of its consequences. It sees it as wholly corrupt, as their values (to us) are so much more traditionally grounded. It is this grounding and lack of readiness for globalisation's effects that bore fundamentalism (which I think is inherently disgusting and unbelievably flawed). I also think allowing America to be run with religion as a key factor in choosing the President and in political decisions is unbelievably stupid. | |
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Spookymuffin said: NDRU said: I believe the society I live in has gotten to such a good place (meaning that we are in such a position of privilege, not having to struggle to survive) that we are in one of the worst times ever in terms of personal conduct. Or society has become self destructive like the spoiled rich kid we are.
I also think that comfort, security and boredom create needs and wants that seem important which would never have previously existed, and even would have been treated as trivial. I would love to have seen something like the iPhone released in 1950s America when the government was running the family planning, good, moral Christian campaign. Views on value and such were much more traditional. indeed, imagine the poorest people in america have TV's and cars, and we're all enraged about someone driving in front of us that's only going 75 miles an hour. We should rejoice at our good fortunes (not that I'm any different out there!) My Legacy
http://prince.org/msg/8/192731 | |
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Spookymuffin said: I also think allowing America to be run with religion as a key factor in choosing the President and in political decisions is unbelievably stupid.
to some (most?) people it's the most important factor.  never mind the 'is america ready for a black/female president' stories that keep running, the election of a non-christian candidate would be far more shocking, imo. | |
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evenstar3 said: Spookymuffin said: I also think allowing America to be run with religion as a key factor in choosing the President and in political decisions is unbelievably stupid.
to some (most?) people it's the most important factor. never mind the 'is america ready for a black/female president' stories that keep running, the election of a non-christian candidate would be far more shocking, imo. Even Kennedy being an Irish Catholic was hard for some people to swallow. I think that politicians fake their faith for votes. My Legacy
http://prince.org/msg/8/192731 | |
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Spookymuffin said: NDRU said: I believe the society I live in has gotten to such a good place (meaning that we are in such a position of privilege, not having to struggle to survive) that we are in one of the worst times ever in terms of personal conduct. Or society has become self destructive like the spoiled rich kid we are.
I also think that comfort, security and boredom create needs and wants that seem important which would never have previously existed, and even would have been treated as trivial. I would love to have seen something like the iPhone released in 1950s America when the government was running the family planning, good, moral Christian campaign. Views on value and such were much more traditional. oh ,its coming back. but more like the Depression era of traditional values  | |
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Spookymuffin said: HereToRockYourWorld said: My ass ain't touching the religion thing at the moment, (shit, Phil
), so let me throw some recent contemplation into the mix:
I think (or, agree; it's not like I thought this up) that our obsession with health and security comes from fear born of prosperity. Most of us reading this have SO much time, so many options, so much wealth. . .we're basically panicked about it. We're overwhelmed, confused, and afraid. And so, we worry about the wrong things. We're obsessing about carbs and herbs, fasts and colonics, prions and toxins, drugs and terrorists, stock markets and Chinese imports. . .etcetera. At the same time, we're letting our freedoms be eroded, we're destroying the planet, and we're allowing ourselves to become disconnected from the welfare of others to the extent that we are endangering our own. I have NO idea how to shift our priorities back in the right direction. And I will say this much about religion: it's not helping us. Let me make this abundantly clear: I do not want this thread in politics and religion, and mods, if you put it there I will rip your cunts out and fill the org with child porn until I am banned. That said, I think religion (do not crucify me for this), particularly Islam, is hampering political climates and western society BEYOND belief right now. I look at Islam as an unfortunate victim of Globalisation. It, as an institution, was not ready for globalisation and all of its consequences. It sees it as wholly corrupt, as their values (to us) are so much more traditionally grounded. It is this grounding and lack of readiness for globalisation's effects that bore fundamentalism (which I think is inherently disgusting and unbelievably flawed). I also think allowing America to be run with religion as a key factor in choosing the President and in political decisions is unbelievably stupid. I think you'd better start amassing a child porn collection.
I wholly agree with you. oh noes, prince is gonna soo me!!1! | |
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NDRU said: evenstar3 said: to some (most?) people it's the most important factor. never mind the 'is america ready for a black/female president' stories that keep running, the election of a non-christian candidate would be far more shocking, imo. Even Kennedy being an Irish Catholic was hard for some people to swallow. I think that politicians fake their faith for votes. yeah, that's like mitt romney and the difficulties he faces for being mormon. i agree, a large portion of them do fake it, or at least fake the intensity of what they believe. sometimes i really can see a case for political apathy, given how things are going. | |
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HereToRockYourWorld said: Spookymuffin said: Let me make this abundantly clear: I do not want this thread in politics and religion, and mods, if you put it there I will rip your cunts out and fill the org with child porn until I am banned. That said, I think religion (do not crucify me for this), particularly Islam, is hampering political climates and western society BEYOND belief right now. I look at Islam as an unfortunate victim of Globalisation. It, as an institution, was not ready for globalisation and all of its consequences. It sees it as wholly corrupt, as their values (to us) are so much more traditionally grounded. It is this grounding and lack of readiness for globalisation's effects that bore fundamentalism (which I think is inherently disgusting and unbelievably flawed). I also think allowing America to be run with religion as a key factor in choosing the President and in political decisions is unbelievably stupid. I think you'd better start amassing a child porn collection.
I wholly agree with you. He can just post pics of himself and I'll take care of the 'porn' aspect. 
Sorry. As you were.  | |
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I just don't know anymore if I could even contribute to this other than in regards to Thailand. | |
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Spookymuffin said: Seeing as I have lowered the tone a little bit recently, I feel the need to raise the level of discussion here in GD away from the narcissistic ramblings of attention-seeking photo-whoring, on a scale not far from that of the supposed Whore of Babylon, to something more befitting of us (as we all, well I say "we all" when really I mean about 60% of us, of which 20% of said 60% will have lost interest about....now) are intelligent people.
Hence, I propose the following discussion on Society: What are your views on the current state of society at present, relative to old, or perhaps relative to nothing? Do you feel society is in a good or bad place right now? Are you aware that ever since the human consciousness began we have always said "things were better in the past" purely because our childhood memories are more distant and naïve relative to our current ones? Indeed, "things" were often not better in the past, or at the very least, difficult to prove that they were better. Do you believe forces such as religion have an active role to play, or are slowly diminishing into nothing? Is this a good or bad thing? How should I fucking know this shit? I think religion not only has a role to play in society, it theocracies may actually win out for a few centuries. Historically after the turn of each mellenium, there's been some type of upheaval that launches the world into some type of desperate religous state. We tend to have a very faithful view of technology and science as a whole, though many are threatenned by these still. But largely , when folks invision the future, they normally see technology and science playing a big role in it, even if their view some type of post apocalyptic view. But technology and science are only allowed to flourish if a societies interpretation of the role and philosophies around religion allow them to. One need not look any further than the onslaught of religious conservatives in America who are trying to dispell such basic notions of science as evolution because it offends their myths. To me poverty begets ignorance, and ignorance begets fundamentalist practices of religion. And what allows poverty to exist in the first place is ignorance (or indifference, which in and of itself is ignorant.  ).
As far as the current state of society, I think it's not any worse than it's ever been. Alot of the folks who complain that everything is going down hill probably don't see things from my brown skin ass's point of view in that at least in today's day and age in America, I can vote, work, and walk around free of the fear of lynching..for the most part. But this is not to say that the freedoms that I enjoy are permanent nor that they ever were granted through any type of altruism on the US government's part.
I think William Golding, in his book, Lord of the Flies breaks down both society, government, and human nature in it's few short pages, perfectly, and could be one of the most elegantly and briefly written summarizations of such concepts. In his book a bunch of boys are sent off on a plane after some type of post-apocalyptic war takes place, crash land on a Utopian tropical island. They range in ages between 6 and 12 (old enough to survive in the right conditions, yet too young to understand what society expects of them). The book then presents to you 3 key figures: Jack (your right-wing, individualistic 'Republican' or 'Libertarian'), Piggy (your left-wing, we're all in this together 'Democrat' or 'Liberal'), and Ralph (who represents government and is trying to just keep everyone alive). Jack also represents impulsiveness, greed, and a lust for power. Piggy, represents a clumbsy, by the rules, character. Ralph of course represents the guy in the middle who is neither hear nor there, but wants to keep the ship alive. Ultimately, Ralph fails (ie, government fails) at keeping the peace. It's Jack, the libertarian turned dictator who overthrows Ralph's authority and has the other children hunt him down. And remember, this is taking place in a tropical paradise , a garden of eden if you will, where there is no need to fight over resources. It's a condemning look at human nature and society, before you even factor in the resources we fight over. It is intersting though how Golding presents a single Christ figure named Simon (if I can remember) who ends up being killed by the middle of the book. If he ended up actually having Simon and Jack combine forces to hunt Ralph down, it would probably sum up the US, as well as several Islamic theocracies right now. | |
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Imago said: To me poverty begets ignorance, and ignorance begets fundamentalist practices of religion. And what allows poverty to exist in the first place is ignorance (or indifference, which in and of itself is ignorant.
). Yet there are plenty of fundamentalists in the US that have never been impoverished. | |
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evenstar3 said: Imago said: To me poverty begets ignorance, and ignorance begets fundamentalist practices of religion. And what allows poverty to exist in the first place is ignorance (or indifference, which in and of itself is ignorant.
). Yet there are plenty of fundamentalists in the US that have never been impoverished. Sorry. I didnt meant to imply poverty is the only thing that begets religios fundelmentalism. It's just one of many factors (but the most common one world wide) that does. The most common one here in the US that breeds fundelmentalism is probably closeted homsexual congressmen on the 'down low' so to speak. | |
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I cringe as I write what is basically a Morrissey lyric, but do you think in our lifetime we'll see a US president who is either black, female or gay (or all three!)?
I wish I could just post an engrish.com picture or something. | |
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Imago said: evenstar3 said: Yet there are plenty of fundamentalists in the US that have never been impoverished. Sorry. I didnt meant to imply poverty is the only thing that begets religios fundelmentalism. It's just one of many factors (but the most common one world wide) that does. The most common one here in the US that breeds fundelmentalism is probably closeted homsexual congressmen on the 'down low' so to speak. the way that keeps happening speaks volumes about how flawed our society is, i think. | |
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fhqwhgads said: I cringe as I write what is basically a Morrissey lyric, but do you think in our lifetime we'll see a US president who is either black, female or gay (or all three!)?
I wish I could just post an engrish.com picture or something. we'll never see a gay president. i honestly think barack will be elected, but then again, i thought the same about kerry.  | |
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evenstar3 said: fhqwhgads said: I cringe as I write what is basically a Morrissey lyric, but do you think in our lifetime we'll see a US president who is either black, female or gay (or all three!)?
I wish I could just post an engrish.com picture or something. we'll never see a gay president. i honestly think barack will be elected, but then again, i thought the same about kerry. Maybe not an 'out' gay president. | |
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fhqwhgads said: evenstar3 said: we'll never see a gay president. i honestly think barack will be elected, but then again, i thought the same about kerry. Maybe not an 'out' gay president. like roosevelt wasn't 'out' about being paralyzed. | |
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evenstar3 said: fhqwhgads said: I cringe as I write what is basically a Morrissey lyric, but do you think in our lifetime we'll see a US president who is either black, female or gay (or all three!)?
I wish I could just post an engrish.com picture or something. we'll never see a gay president. i honestly think barack will be elected, but then again, i thought the same about kerry. For Barack to be President I think a few things must happen: 1) The war in Iraq had to get even MORE desperate, but not so much to the point Americans get stupid again an assume Republicans can run a war better 2) Hilary really has to fuck up. 3) The Republicans pick the most right-of-center candidate they can--Juliani can't be to opposition. Though I think Barack could PWN Juliani in a debate--the issue I have with that is Bush was PNWED by both Gore and Kerry in every damned debate and America still displayed it's stinky ass on voting day. The country is not in a 'good mood' right now. Whenever that happens folks either look for a new direction (which I don't truly think Obama can give us unfortunately) or proven leadership, (which Barack doesn't have enough of on a national or pulitical level). I would LOVE to see Barack win. If he by some mirical gets the nomination, I'll vote for him even if news leaks that that he once raped a monkey in the zoo. It's just time. | |
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Imago said: evenstar3 said: we'll never see a gay president. i honestly think barack will be elected, but then again, i thought the same about kerry. For Barack to be President I think a few things must happen: 1) The war in Iraq had to get even MORE desperate, but not so much to the point Americans get stupid again an assume Republicans can run a war better 2) Hilary really has to fuck up. 3) The Republicans pick the most right-of-center candidate they can--Juliani can't be to opposition. Though I think Barack could PWN Juliani in a debate--the issue I have with that is Bush was PNWED by both Gore and Kerry in every damned debate and America still displayed it's stinky ass on voting day. The country is not in a 'good mood' right now. Whenever that happens folks either look for a new direction (which I don't truly think Obama can give us unfortunately) or proven leadership, (which Barack doesn't have enough of on a national or pulitical level). I would LOVE to see Barack win. If he by some mirical gets the nomination, I'll vote for him even if news leaks that that he once raped a monkey in the zoo. It's just time.
He'd surely appreciate that level of support. . [Edited 9/19/07 21:03pm] | |
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Imago said: evenstar3 said: we'll never see a gay president. i honestly think barack will be elected, but then again, i thought the same about kerry. For Barack to be President I think a few things must happen: 1) The war in Iraq had to get even MORE desperate, but not so much to the point Americans get stupid again an assume Republicans can run a war better 2) Hilary really has to fuck up. 3) The Republicans pick the most right-of-center candidate they can--Juliani can't be to opposition. Though I think Barack could PWN Juliani in a debate--the issue I have with that is Bush was PNWED by both Gore and Kerry in every damned debate and America still displayed it's stinky ass on voting day. The country is not in a 'good mood' right now. Whenever that happens folks either look for a new direction (which I don't truly think Obama can give us unfortunately) or proven leadership, (which Barack doesn't have enough of on a national or pulitical level). I would LOVE to see Barack win. If he by some mirical gets the nomination, I'll vote for him even if news leaks that that he once raped a monkey in the zoo. It's just time. that convinced me that hardly anyone watches or cares about the debates. | |
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fhqwhgads said: Imago said: For Barack to be President I think a few things must happen: 1) The war in Iraq had to get even MORE desperate, but not so much to the point Americans get stupid again an assume Republicans can run a war better 2) Hilary really has to fuck up. 3) The Republicans pick the most right-of-center candidate they can--Juliani can't be to opposition. Though I think Barack could PWN Juliani in a debate--the issue I have with that is Bush was PNWED by both Gore and Kerry in every damned debate and America still displayed it's stinky ass on voting day. The country is not in a 'good mood' right now. Whenever that happens folks either look for a new direction (which I don't truly think Obama can give us unfortunately) or proven leadership, (which Barack doesn't have enough of on a national or pulitical level). I would LOVE to see Barack win. If he by some mirical gets the nomination, I'll vote for him even if news leaks that that he once raped a monkey in the zoo. It's just time.
He'd surely appreciate that level of support. . [Edited 9/19/07 21:03pm] I'm loyal | |
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fhqwhgads said: I cringe as I write what is basically a Morrissey lyric, but do you think in our lifetime we'll see a US president who is either black, female or gay (or all three!)?
I wish I could just post an engrish.com picture or something. Why does it matter? Is that the criteria? We must have a president someday that embodies something diverse. So in todays world it's female, black, gay. In tomorrows world it's transgendered, voluntary amputee, a woman with a labia peircing. Just as long as all our bases are covered and everyone feels equally represented pertaining to their special difference that actually makes no difference. Like then we're going to have a better world. When all the voluntary amputees get a voluntary amputee elected. That'll turn things around. I don't know. I just don't think so. America's political system used to be about the "pursuit of happiness." Now more and more of us want to stop chasing it and have it delivered.
"Our Constitution is designed only for a moral and religious people. It is wholly inadequate for any other."- | |
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greenpixies said: fhqwhgads said: I cringe as I write what is basically a Morrissey lyric, but do you think in our lifetime we'll see a US president who is either black, female or gay (or all three!)?
I wish I could just post an engrish.com picture or something. Why does it matter? Is that the criteria? We must have a president someday that embodies something diverse. So in todays world it's female, black, gay. In tomorrows world it's transgendered, voluntary amputee, a woman with a labia peircing. Just as long as all our bases are covered and everyone feels equally represented pertaining to their special difference that actually makes no difference. Like then we're going to have a better world. When all the voluntary amputees get a voluntary amputee elected. That'll turn things around. I don't know. I just don't think so. We already have a mental amputee as a president so I don't think you need worry your pretty little head much.  | |
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greenpixies said: fhqwhgads said: I cringe as I write what is basically a Morrissey lyric, but do you think in our lifetime we'll see a US president who is either black, female or gay (or all three!)?
I wish I could just post an engrish.com picture or something. Why does it matter? Is that the criteria? We must have a president someday that embodies something diverse. So in todays world it's female, black, gay. In tomorrows world it's transgendered, voluntary amputee, a woman with a labia peircing. Just as long as all our bases are covered and everyone feels equally represented pertaining to their special difference that actually makes no difference. Like then we're going to have a better world. When all the voluntary amputees get a voluntary amputee elected. That'll turn things around. I don't know. I just don't think so. You fuckers see what you get for bringing P&R shit in GD? Studies have shown the ass crack of the average Prince fan to be abnormally large. This explains the ease and frequency of their panties bunching up in it. |
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moderatorImago said: greenpixies said: Why does it matter? Is that the criteria? We must have a president someday that embodies something diverse. So in todays world it's female, black, gay. In tomorrows world it's transgendered, voluntary amputee, a woman with a labia peircing. Just as long as all our bases are covered and everyone feels equally represented pertaining to their special difference that actually makes no difference. Like then we're going to have a better world. When all the voluntary amputees get a voluntary amputee elected. That'll turn things around. I don't know. I just don't think so. We already have a mental amputee as a president so I don't think you need worry your pretty little head much. don't even engage her, it's not worth the time. we've already jacked this thread enough with politics, the last thing we need is 3 pages of greenpixies. | |
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Spookymuffin said: Seeing as I have lowered the tone a little bit recently, I feel the need to raise the level of discussion here in GD away from the narcissistic ramblings of attention-seeking photo-whoring, on a scale not far from that of the supposed Whore of Babylon, to something more befitting of us (as we all, well I say "we all" when really I mean about 60% of us, of which 20% of said 60% will have lost interest about....now) are intelligent people.Hence, I propose the following discussion on Society:
What are your views on the current state of society at present, relative to old, or perhaps relative to nothing? Do you feel society is in a good or bad place right now? Are you aware that ever since the human consciousness began we have always said "things were better in the past" purely because our childhood memories are more distant and naïve relative to our current ones? Indeed, "things" were often not better in the past, or at the very least, difficult to prove that they were better. Do you believe forces such as religion have an active role to play, or are slowly diminishing into nothing? Is this a good or bad thing? What's going on with the missing 20%?? Do you mean 20% of the 60%?? Hokay: 10% of 60 is 6, times two, equals twelve, move the decimal over to the left two digits, .12, twelve hundreths, or twelve percent...is that what you mean???? [Edited 9/19/07 22:57pm] | |
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