SkletonKee said:[quote]

Supernova said:

I have no idea what exact roles you're talking about.


Doubtful, considering my fiancé is a screenwriter/producer.

Supernova said:

well, do you feel an artist has the right to create? to create a song that addresses an American Icon in an un-pc fashion...or an actress to create a character who might perpetuate a stereotype but is still ten-times better written the the normal roles written for a black woman?

and your right, i miss understood your previous statement...i do agree that some of the actions were implausible..but then, the films a MELODrama!!! its supposed to be implausible..what works about the film is that it sets up these completly believable people in situations that are compelty unbelievable..yet, during the quiet scenes, you grow to care for them...

Supernova said:

well, you could be married to Steven Spielberg and *not* go see movies..and your responce would be moot...

how often to you go to the movies? after all, your debating a film right now that you have admitted to *not* seeing?

Supernova said:

see my above post...


or

Have you seen

Changing Lanes with Samuel L Jackson?

Ali with Will Smith?

Eddie Murphy in Bowfinger?

Don Cheadle and Bernie Mac in Ocean Eleven?

Eriq La Salle in One Hour Photo


boycott the edit!!
[This message was edited Sun Oct 6 22:49:27 PDT 2002 by SkletonKee]

SkletonKee said:

I've seen Bowfinger. Wasn't really impressed. Didn't want to see Ali because going by the trailers I didn't buy Will Smith playing Ali, nor what's his name playing Cossell. Let me make it clear; I do think things have gotten better for Black actors in terms of diversity, but nowhere near what they should be in terms diversity and quality roles.

SkletonKee said:

No, I'm not debating a movie, I'm debating the roles for Black actors. I've said from the get-go I've never seen the movie, and only know what I've read about it.

SkletonKee said:[quote]

Supernova said:

Yes. That's always been the case for art in general.


I'd have to see it before forming an opinion. You could describe it to me 10 times over, and I'd still need to see it myself. Because as I've learned over the years, it's very odd that people can see the same things and have entirely different views of it. The whole Monsters Ball issue for me is more about diversity, regardless of what went on in the movie.

Supernova said:

okay...well, after you see Monster's Ball..let me know when last you've seen another character similiar to Halle Berry's in Monster Ball...

the funny thing is...i saw a lot of Sissy Spacek's role in Halle's...Both played woman in similiar situations...both lost something dear to them..how they handled the situations is completly different...and both acted out their roles in silence...long long long silence...

but i tell you this, i walked out of Monster's Ball with more respect for Halle Berry's character then I did Sissy's...diversity be damned...both roles and performances were great!!

SkletonKee said:

About as much as I buy new music; about 4 times a month. And just as with music (my passion), I don't buy a lot of the cinematic junk that's out there because I'm not obligated to and don't have interest in every movie released, no matter what my fiancé does.

SkletonKee said:

At this point I'm not really interested in seeing it.

Supernova said:

fine fine...and i wont ever ever ever ever listen to Avalanche again...

thats a promise i know i can keep.

Supernova said:

okay, ill let prince b*tch and moan in cryptic non-productive fashion too then...

SkletonKee said:

I've never been a proponent of telling anyone what to listen to. It makes me no difference.

SkletonKee said:

You seem to be really uptight about Prince and his music that not many people hear nowadays...

SkletonKee said:

Actually, black actresses aren't so rare. Bassett, Pinkett, Whitney Houston (*cough-cough-cough*), Loretta Devine, Oprah, Nia Long, Sanaa Lathan, Lela Rochon, and a host of others come to mind.

The issue for many people, though, was the nomination for and awarding of an Oscar to Halle Berry for a film with a sex scene that was so ribald even a buddy of mine said he felt uncomfortable when he saw it. I understand the desire for an actress to convey desperation and pain. But, Halle was exploited, and a lot of people (including I) felt that she'd pimped herself for a little statuette.

Yes, white actresses have gone a similar route and been awarded similarly. However, there have been WHITE best actress award winners for decades. Berry's win for that role felt really cheap, and I can see how actresses who've turned in fine performances (I agree with Bassett in X, for example -- heck, in Strange Days, for that matter) and have been overlooked (quite likely because of their color).

Halle's win was anything but honorable -- to me.

Supernova said:

oh no..not uptight about the music...just his lil avalanche rant...for the most part I think the man has found his voice again...now im hoping the consistent quality will come back too...

but, i just dont see how you can complain about a lack of diversity for black actors when...for me...the problem isnt a lack of diversity but a lack of quality...

i must say though, this has been a great year for black cinema...


Monster Ball was a smash indi film

Barbershop breaking records

BrownSugar (I am soo seeing this film after Ebert pointed out that this was a smart written film, period. regardles of race)

UnderCover Brothers was a minor hit but recieved major critical praise

MenInBlack 2 (ughh..but come on. Will Smith is a star who doesnt perpetuate stereotypes )

JohnQ was a hit

Changing Lanes was a bigger hit

Antwone Fisher seems to be on its way to being an indie hit...



all these films have done far more in gross then any David Lynch film could dream of...or cohen brothers for that matter, or woody allen...or spike lee :O

ThreadBare said:

but all the above mentioned woman *dont* play the hollywood game..with the exception of Bassett and Pinkett...and both of those actresses have praised Halle's performance and pointed out the win was justly deserved...(even though Bassett slammed the role and pointed out *she* would never have accepted such a role)..i think whats great is that, these actressed *now* have the choice to pick or pass on these performacnes...

and dont forget that Oprah, Bassett, Goldberg are all members of the Academy themselves...

and BTW: why don't hispanics get all up in arms when they are overlooked? why dont asians (who have NEVER won any acting awards) make a big stink of it?

i happen to think that while overall ethnic minorities have a long way to go before things are equal...i also understand that blacks have made much greater progress then their counterparts...

i still give koodoos to Halle for having the balls to do this roll...i actually damn her harder for taking on a damn Bond Role...now *that* is a sellout

SkletonKee said:

See, this is where you show you're not reading what I said, AGAIN. I did mention a lack of quality too. In one of the myriad posts I made above.


I'll hold my tongue on this one. Because I like Roger Ebert...


Never said he did.

ok eye rented this movie 4 weeks ago .everybody was saying how good this movie is.so eye took it home .put in the vcr and cuttle down with my girlfriend in bed (yes we watch movies in the bedroom).eye told my girlfriend that on the back off the tape it says the most controversy sex scene ever in america.and we were like oh yes let see this .well we almost got falling 2 sleep because this movie is so borring.ok there is very good acting going on.but so borring.finnaly the big sexscene came up.and we were like "is this the big thing in america those americans must b very borring in sex .we were very glad the movie was donne .and saying we can do much better then this .so after monster borring ball. me and my girlfriend had monster sex.hehe so actualy it was a good movie after all.

I Loved the movie,but I do agree Halle didn't have to show so much Ass and Skin. What in the World? It did leave one thinking her and Billy were really Fucking and did she get it for her Portrayal or for her Beautiful Ass or Fucking Scene? True,so True. Billy Bob is a Pig. The way Angelina Jolie Kissed his Ass in Awe is Retarded for such a Hot Babe. Now he left her? She should have Known his Reputation and he's been Divorced so Many times. This guy Fools around like crazy. It's his Reputation for being Well-Hung and a Stud. I liked him best in Sling Blade. What a Movie. Rent that one. Also Halle always said all her Men abused her now did she also mean Spike Lee and Wesley Snipes? Seems like she Abuses herself for somebody so Gorgeous and a Former Beauty Queen. Maybe she doesn't Realize her Own Worth. I love her movies with Eddie Murphy and I love her Revlon Ads. As far as Respect. Well,I still respect her and I think she's a Great Actress.

Saw the movie not 2 long ago, and first of all, it sucked big time. The acting was ok i guess, although it couldn't make up 4 the lousy scenes/storyline.

Anyweez, back 2 the topic at hand. Apparently most of u haven't seen Monica Belluci in Irréversible, 'cause there u'd c a 'white' actress taking risks (and pulling it off imho, great movie), or The Idiots. I'm all in favor of sex scenes in movies, and if my opinion mattered, i'd say show it all. Some people's morals r still twisted enough 2 let their children watch violent action movies, but not a sex scene. In this particul movie the sex scene was not 'essential' but it did give a pretty good id of their relationship, and there4 was functional. Although not very realistic, it was rather aestetical, so i really can't c any problem, bsides mayb the director moving the camera in such a way u-can-almost-c-everything-but-not. U can choose 2 show or u can choose not 2 show, but if u 'tease' with it u take away from the functionallity of the scene.
One last remark, putting the words 'most controversy sex scene' on the video does imply the producers were looking 2 attrackt buyers with Barry's ass, and that's a shame.

I will say that the Sex scenes and wasn't it Billy's movie? Well,sorry but it was too Graphic. It looks like they are really having Sex and maybe they Were. I think Halle just wanted to let Go? But she didn't need to nor did she Have to Show her Breasts in was it Swordfish? I suppose she wanted to? She Already was an Actress. Halle shouldn't have given in to the Pressure if she didn't want to. She's Gorgeous and look at how Vanessa Williams was Terribly and Wrongfully Stripped of her Crown of Miss America when she had photos come out in Penthouse. She was Disgraced and it's terrible cause I do believe she was dating a White guy even engaged and he left her because of it. Seriously,I don't understand why the Photographer wanted to hurt her like that! She didn't Deserve it! She is an Awesome Talented Woman who Sings Great and also Acts Wonderfully. Was it Racism and Bigotry that played in the Disgrace since she was the First Black African American Female to win the Crown of Miss America? Also for Halle was this also Discrimination in this movie? Well,the movie was about Racism and biggotry. What did Halle want the world to see her Tatoo? Ass? She's Good in Bed? Well, it should have been more about the movie and actually Halle Sold this movie with the Sex Scene. But, She was Exploited to a Degree. It wasn't necessary to show Soo much and this movie should have gotten an NC17 rating. Listen, I love Halle and Sex Sells and Halle sold this movie . I hope for her next movie since she is now in a League to Really Choose her Roles she Chooses Intelligently. She is Wonderful.

Supernova said:

wow..we are still at it, huh? lol...MORNING!!


actually, i tried my darndest to comprehend everything you were saying...yeah i know you had pointed out quality in a previous post..but, i felt it was important enough to mention again... i dont want to frustrate you anymore so i guess we can end our debate.

SkletonKee said:

How do you define "the Hollywood game?" they've all been featured in major releases.

SkletonKee said:

are you kidding me? how much money u think Eric La Salle gets for movies money wise?? and who the hell is Don Cheadle? U think Sam gets paid like Tom Hanks or Tom cruise or Jack Nicholson or Pacino, Nicholas Cage??? I don't know what world you live in but let give me a one way trip there PLEASE!

All I have 2 say is that Halle is either REALLY good in bed or a REAL good actress.

ThreadBare said:

not only that but all these actresses have B roles in movies that are mainly movies for black audiences... White people think these woman have no $$$ demographic

JMG1 said:

Or Will Smith or Denzel Washington or Eddie Murphy or Lucy Lui or Chris Rock or Chris Tucker or Jackie Chan...


diversity is upon us...sure we arent there...but, we arent moving backwards..

sometimes i think its better for people to assume that equality isnt there then to actually acknowledge that diversity is building strong momentum...

and who is Don Cheadle? Well, he stared in Ocean's Eleven last year with George Clooney, Julia Roberts and Brad Pitt...they all recieved the *same* paycheck for the film..

but, when did this become a discussion about income?

SkletonKee said:

When you brought up:

Supernova said:

how you all remember every lil thing covered in a thread is beyond me... i need to work on that...

but, it just reinforces the fact that there are big time african american money makers...







complain about the edit!!
[This message was edited Mon Oct 7 10:46:20 PDT 2002 by SkletonKee]