but i could CHOOSE to feed a sick/invalid loved one the diet of my choice if they're not able to intervene. why is that not a comparable scenario?

and why is *my* "vegan/vegitarian(sic) lifestyle" so utterly dependent on *your* personal definition? don't impose your binary reality on me, man.

imago,

read this and get back with me:

http://tedeboy.tripod.com.../id17.html

i'm not saying i'm 100% on the same page as this guy, but i do like his distinctions with regards to "deep" and "shallow" vegetarians, and i like his argument for basing a cruelty-free existence on a larger perspective of real-world bio-ethics rather than fundamentalist idealism.

have a look. in a lot of ways, he's saying what i wish i could have written here.

Anxiety said:

Girl, that doesn't change my stance!

Imago said:

what stance is that - BUFFALO?

Anxiety said:

CarrieMpls said:

Is that Georgio of "Lover's Lane" fame?

Imago said:

I don't even know what you're talking about.

CarrieMpls said:

Georgio!

He was like both Rob & Fab in one, but he could actually sing!


I'm pretty sure he ate meat.

Imago said:

Was he gay?

CarrieMpls said:

I'm not sure. I don't really think so.
You never know in this day and age. The 80's were so confusing, with all the gender bending. Well, actually they weren't that confusing as all the gender benders ended up being gay anyways.

But Georgio seemed pretty into women.

You seriously never heard of Georgio? Have you heard of Dino?




(I suspect they both eat meat, just to keep the focus of this thread )

rico suave

Great...now I am left singing cheesy songs from the 80's in my head.
Talk about inhuman....torture

shanti0608 said:

Like tofu

Imago said:

I forgot about this thread. I have no idea who georgio is. I think I've heard of Dino... was he blond?

eh, I don't really care.

mdiver said:

Now I know how to torture you

tofurkey it is then....

shanti0608 said:

You withold meat from me.....i withold meat from you.....simple

I love Smoked Turkey Breast. Too much. To quit. I like to get a nice relaxing tossed salad from time to time.

I guess I'm a shallow vegetarian. It doesn't bother me that cats or other animals eat meat. I don't try to rationalize it, but I'm probably not the type of militant vegetarian you have in mind. While I have what may be an irrational hatred for many mass producing commercial farms, I'm not on a mission to universally end meat consumption. I just don't want to eat it. I don't lose a minute of sleep because my critters do, though. We often give them raw pieces of locally grown and butchered meat. It's just not an ethical dilemma for me.

I won't stop owning or fostering meat eating pets until there are none left in shelters and rescue. We do some pretty heavy rescue work. As long as people continue to irresponsibly churn out these little bundles of carnivores, I'm going to continue to be involved. And they'll eat meat.

and so it goes

Oh, I read back a little more thoroughly. I see it's more about a lifestyle comparison and the attempt to call out people who claim a vegetarian or vegan lifestyle. It seems lifestyle is the key in this whole... thing.

Ok, for the sake of clarification, I'm a vegetarian, but my husband and animals are not. I do not make any lifestyle claims.

I just thought of something. Should my husband feel insulted because I won't prepare meat dishes for him, but I prepare and feed it to the animals? If you want to call me out on that double standard or hypocrisy, I'll own that.
[Edited 8/29/07 19:38pm]

Horsefeathers said:

actually, according to the article i posted earlier today, you wouldn't be considered a "shallow" vegetarian. i think the contrasting term the author used was "deep vegetarian" - meaning that you balance the standards and ethics of your own consumption against the larger bioethical picture in terms of how the world operates, rather than operating with a mentality of absolutist idealism.

Anxiety said:

nod: The contrast in definitions of vegetarian terms is astonishing. Its opened my eyes, I must say.

Rhondab said:

Yeah you are right, I had rushed that post after reading your first post on River whithout really checking where you went with it. Must check the whole thread next time. It is a good point which I have considered in regard to myself many times. I think it is relevant for most of us actually. Basically the way I feel is that if we were able to love ourselves the way we care for those around us we would be much happier. I think it's better to be a healthy living meat eater than a self harming vegetarian because self harm damages the whole community. It's not quite that black and white in my mind but that's roughly my view.

MsLegs said:

it's just one expert's point of view but i thought his argument was very compelling and definitely challenging regardless of where your opinions lie on the subject.

Although looking more closely at his comment, he did say it seemed like a bad way to abuse our power, to victimise weaker life forms. He wasn't saying it is bad to harm any life form. Sound like a possible misanthrope.

phineas said:

he was arguing the popular absolutist point of view that doesn't take into account the necessities of the food chain and other necessary sacrifices. i think he was saying that the only ethical change we can really police is our own individual choices and behaviors. that's what i took from it.

Anxiety said:

I disagree with ever you say.



I just wanted to say that.

Imago said:

don't touch me.

Anxiety said:

I think I am projecting my own ideas onto his statement. I can't help having a somewhat negative view of the human race sometimes and that makes me less forgiving of the fact that so many animals suffer because of us. I do feel that if a person can truly live by their ideals, that person will be well known as they are few and far between. Some peoples 'necessary' is anothers, well, unnecessary. Interesting what you said about policing choices though. For instance, we have (here in the UK) laws protecting animals from certain types of abuse, and just recently fox hunting was banned and yet eating meat is still seen as a necessity, general farming is deemed ok. So a certain amount of policing is enforced regarding animal rights. I would not wish to enforce vegetarianism on people though, damn I am now very perplexed. Must go and drink some tea...with soy milk of course

I've been a vegetarian for half of my life and I try to avoid telling that new people I'm meeting because the silly responses I've heard in my life from when some people found out I'm vegetarian changed my whole opinion about them. So in pretty much all cases people find out that I'm vegetarian from my friends telling them or from them wondering themselves after a while.
Even today people know nothing about vegetarians which is pretty sad.