Lothan said:

What's that? that the post will be met with a bunch of responses which don't even look at the question? There are plenty of counter arguments to what I am saying surely? I honestly want to hear them. If someone can convince me to change my view I will buy them a big steak!

Lothan said:

i don't think phineas was baiting. i didn't feel like anything was created to alienate people who eat meat. i don't think that was the intention of this thread. yes, i know where ALL vegetarian threads go, but i don't think the person who started this thread had the intention of starting the usual chain of predictability that we have all come to know as an org vegetarianism thread.

Anxiety said:

agreed. sometimes we're a bit too cynical around here.

Lothan said:

I hope you don't feel insulted. I suppose some of the quotes posted lay some heavy stuff on a carnivores doorstep. It does seem that you are sympathetic to the idea though. I also will try to remain open to the pro meat argument. Beware of absolutes!

phineas said:

Naw, I'm not insulted. I have an open enough mind to see why people who are vegetarian feel the way they do.

phineas said:

i think acceptance is key.

while i feel that a meat-based diet is unacceptable for me, i can't pretend like everyone else's body runs like mine does, and i can't presume the same diet would work for someone else the same way it does for me. i think it's dangerous for a person to feel "pressured" into a vegetarian diet without serious contemplation of what their body needs in order to survive. i'm lucky. i eased into it with no problems, and it's something that makes me feel better on so many different levels. but that's ME. i get really upset when radical absolutists pressure people to "stop eating meat NOW NOW NOW!!!" because i think they're making a dangerous demand, and one that could ultimately turn more people off to transitioning to a veggie diet once they see how sick some people can get from an instant change to a veggie diet. there's too much ignorance and prejudice out there toward veggies in the first place - there's no need for us to contribute to the negativity with overzealous idealism and radical messages lacking forethought.

Lothan said:

Cool, thanks for responding to what I gather is a well trodden path on this forum.
Let me pose a different but related question, coming from a different angle with no political agenda intended.
If one believes it is wrong to kill animals, why is it ok to kill plants?
[Edited 8/28/07 7:10am]

Lothan said:

Oh, how I love you!

Genesia said:

I love you, too. Read my thread at home.

Lothan said:

I saw...

Let me pose a different but related question, coming from a different angle with no political agenda intended.
If one believes it is wrong to kill animals, why is it ok to kill plants?
[Edited 8/28/07 7:10am]
[/quote]

I mean I would probably say that in order for the concept of justice to exist there has to be sentience. I can imagine a few people switching threads at this point. I'm just fishing to see if someone might have an idea on this!

Lothan said:

Wow your mutual indifference towards my thread has brought you two closer together. I feel I acheived something after all

Anxiety said:

I think you should

Anxiety said:

And we can't have that now can we?

Jesus ate fish...I'm eating fish.

Rhondab said:

see, that's what i always say when people look at me funny when i'm out walking on water.

phineas said:

I'll tell you soon as I finish these leftover lamb chops. Mmm-mmm! That lamb didn't stand a chance.

Anxiety said:

Hey I just made a glove puppet, I'll give it the pro veg side of the argument so as not to be demeening meat eaters.

Phineas said- if it is immoral to kil animals then why is it ok to kill plants?

Mr glove said- because for the concept of justice to exist there must be sentience?

Phineas said- that's a great point, I guess it's ok to eat plants. But hang on, plant's form part of our ecosystem which in turn affects the lives of animals.

Mr glove said- it's all about intention. I do not judge animals for killing to eat as it is their only option. We on the other hand can choose to avoid killing by choosing our only alternative which is agriculture. The damage to life is far less.

Phineas said- you are talking to yourself man!

Mr glove said- no you are talking to yourself, you created me remember?

Phineas said- hmmm

Rhondab said:

I thought he gave fish to the hungry. I don't remember the part where he also ate it. I am not well versed though I admit.

phineas said:

he ate it...and I'm sure if he thought i was wrong...they would have just had the bread.....

I just ground up some coffee beans

This thread makes me need some food

Rhondab said:

Yeah I see what you are saying, he could have stuck with the bread. But hey the fish was already dead right? so why waste it?
Anyhow, which bit says he ate it?

phineas said:

Vagina.

phineas said:

Rhondab said:

So Jesus said* to them, "Children, you do not have any fish, do you?" They answered Him, "No." 6And He said to them, "Cast the net on the right-hand side of the boat and you will find a catch." So they cast, and then they were not able to haul it in because of the great number of fish. . . . So when they got out on the land, they saw* a charcoal fire already laid and fish placed on it, and bread. 10Jesus said* to them, "Bring some of the fish which you have now caught." 11Simon Peter went up and drew the net to land, full of large fish, a hundred and fifty-three; and although there were so many, the net was not torn. 12Jesus said* to them, "Come and have breakfast." None of the disciples ventured to question Him, "Who are You?" knowing that it was the Lord. 13Jesus came* and took* the bread and gave* it to them, and the fish likewise. (John 21:5-6, 9-14)

Ok, I got this quote from the new testament, but I still haven't read any direct statement that he himself consumed the fish. The only other evidence I have seen is that he took part in certain festivals and passovers which would ritually involve consuming meat and fish but I still feel it's inconclusive.

Rhondab said:

I tell you what though, that stuff is hard to resist

maybe we can teach the lions and bears to go meatless

WTH ? Y'all gonna get this moved back to P&R