I'm not. I was reading this thread : http://www.prince.org/msg...&tid=23809

and found it to be perversely enlightening. I don't know any atheists or agnostics for that matter so reading Ice's views is educational for me, a believer of Christ.. I would say "follower" but I'm often times caught hitchhiking on the road to Sin City. (lol).

Anyway, it seems that it got a little heated in that forum and I wondered why. I am not offended if someone believes something other than what I do -- I mean -- I may seem as ridiculous and stupid to some -- as people who eat poisoned pudding and are waiting for their intergallactic family to beam them up are to me!

The exceptions is my views are more widely recognized. Generally speaking of course, because unlike Sensual Melody, I do believe in a Heaven AND a Hell. but that's another discussion for another time.

Basically, my opinion on the matter is the higher the IQ the more implausible God is to comprehension. If you can explain everything away via mathematical computation -- how is there room for a Creator? The rest of us simpletons need to grasp on to a belief that there is "something more" out there beyond our pitiful lives. Of course I disagree with that particular brand of thinking as a whole, but the rationale does make sense to me.


My theory? (since you didnt ask)

1) Evolution is real -- God is the Big Bang. He caused it.
2) Dinosaurs existed -- hello?!
3) God created us and then realized he could command us to worship him and we would -- but where's the fun in that? we dont want to force people to love us! (unless you're Natasha/Vagina ) We want to be loved freely. So God gave Man free will.
4) God allows bad things to happen. Yes he does -- but who created the bad things? We did, out of our own free will and choice.
5) The bible is a roadmap, a guidebook, with literal and symbolic translation open to interpretation. That's just the way it is. Ice said that God shoulda made a more comprehensible book -- to that end I would agree... but then how would the Pope control his empire? (lol) Theory on the misinterpretation of the bible is to be blamed on ... yes you guessed it! THA DEBBLE! He likes to cause confusion cuz he's pissed at God and is fighting a battle he cant win. Oh the heinousness of Armageddon.

I mean I could go on, but I basically believe with Infinities Heaven views posted in the thread above.

Good cannot exist without Evil.

I dont have to "research" God, I just have to be still enough, quiet enough to listen.

And I think.. that the best manifestation of GOD like qualities is Tolerance, Love and Acceptance. As humans, we severely lack in all three.

Self Righteousness is not righteous at all, remember that when people express their views. (Except for the alien invasion -- you can throw those souls onto Jerry Springers grill!)


PS. If you're gonna quote scripture to an atheist you should know he doesnt believe in it! just thought I'd throw that out.. lol



and JEDI MASTER said all of the above more eloquently than I could but.. shit, I just felt like rehashing it!

Hi, nLA.

I'm not offended by anyones views. I used to be an athiest, then agnostic, now I am just me. I don't follow any religion, I just believe in what I believe and will never ask anyone to think as I do, or try and prove my thoughts to anyone. I don't find that it gets very far, it tends to push people away, at least it has proven so in my experience.

To me, I have faith in God and I don't need to follow a book, attend a service, or help people find the way in order to have that faith. I just go about my everyday business and try to be the best person that I can be. Whatever happens in the end will happen, but my life now is what is important to me, and my relationships with those around me, no matter what their faith.

BattierBeMyDaddy said:

Hey Sunshine! (is there a sunshine emoticon?)

nLA said:

No, but that's okay. Good post, by the way. I don't have anything to add. I believe you know where I stand on the atheism thing, bein' one 'n all.

Not offended at all...Like Azure everyone is entitled to their own belief system.

I am a buddhist, hindu, catholic girl of the world sort.
Whatever that is!

"PS. If you're gonna quote scripture to an atheist you should know he doesnt believe in it! just thought I'd throw that out.. lol"

Excellent point!!

I have said it before and I'll say it again:

nLA is one of the single most intelligent and wonderful people on the org.

If more people thought like him, there would be fewer problems, as he is IMMENSELY understanding and can see different sides of things.

I have absolutely no problems with christians who think like nLA, as he is very intelligent and holds his beliefs without condemning those of others.

nLA, we all love you!

AzureStar said:

I have a question for you Azure... since you've been there and back (so to speak) will you teach your children in God or be vague about it or not mention it at all?

I always wonder just how much our upbringing influences our faith -- I know for many religion can kill ones drive for any further spiritual enlightenment.

a christian typo! lol
[This message was edited Wed Oct 2 15:09:19 PDT 2002 by nLA]

IceNine said:

I certainly do. He is my org hero.

Anagram for NLA:

"No anagrams found by recursive algorithm"

nLA said:

Our upbringing has a lot to do with it. I mean, around here, everybody's parents believe in God, so they do. No one I know my age is actually educated in what they believe; they believe it cuz their mommy and daddy told them to.

Then, there are some of us, who are lucky enough to have parents who encourage us to not believe the way they do, because they do, but to believe how we want, because we want to. I'm allowed to make my own decisions on things, without worrying about what my father thinks of what I believe. I know where he stands on things, and I'm allowed to form my own opinion, and it's allowed to differ from that of my father's.

My father is a Christian.

IceNine said:

Heh heh heh.. Ice just wants me to keep worshiping him as the Reigning Unbeliever of the org.

All hail ICE!


PS.. you said it before? cool

I am not offended in the least...
Why would anyone be offended by what another chooses
to do with his own life?

I admit I don't like it when I'm called an idiot because
I believe...but since I know full well that I am no
idiot...then I let all such references roll off...

Free moral agents...That's what we all are...

Forgive me for posting twice..

nLA...What makes you think I don't believe in heaven???
I have never ever ever ever said I don't believe that
there is a heaven...That's where God and Jesus live.
Some will reap a heavenly reward...Revelation clearly shows
that.
I also know that hell exists...sheol, hades, the grave.
It's the inferno that I don't accept...
Gehenna(hellfire)
referred to a garbage dump in Jerusalem where the
bodies of dead criminals were thrown as they were not
considered worthy of burial...dead animals were thrown there
also...and garbage...when they were not totally consumed by the fire,
maggots were seen there...as the bible mentioned.
Also, sulphur was added to the fire...it was kept burning
day and night...thus the reference to an everlasting fire.

I believe all the bible including the promise of a paradise earth...psalms37:10,11...Matt5:5

Peace nLA,,,I'm flattered that you read my post.

Not at all...I just care!

nLA,

That was one of the best thought out posts on this whole site.

Anyone who tries to argue religion on this thread needs a serious smack across the back of his/her thread.

Question is:

R the atheists threatened by our views?


Hmmm, yes.

Nep2nes said:

Hmmm... nope

:LOL:

Goddamn, that was stupid.

Nep2nes said:

i agree

SensualMelody said:

I apologize Sensual -- I meant to say our versions of heaven and hell DIFFER.. you are correct, you never said you did *not* believe in them.

I like what you have to say in these Forums Sensual... I just think that this a place where a mixture of alter egos and real people collide. So when it comes to the art of debate, especially on the subject of religion or spirituallity -- some people take it personal.

I'm fairly certain you don't care about what people think of you and your faith... I know I don't -- but I do care how people PERCEIVE me BECAUSE of my faith.

As you know, its a hard cross to bear.

Nep2nes said:

Why would you think that Neps?

I think Battier and Ice like to debate on the logical, and if you are interested in theology and the like, their discussions are articulate and "common sensical" -- unfortunately, the term "blind faith" exists because of the nature of faith itself.

It cannot be explained, accounted for, reasoned or rationalized.

It just is.

If WE used the other 93% of your brain -- maybe WE would understand.


i said you instead of we.. hope neps didnt read the unedited version!
[This message was edited Wed Oct 2 19:04:17 PDT 2002 by nLA]

savoirfaire said:

Melody said:

Damn right I'm offended. I find it offensive that there are not more of them.
[This message was edited Wed Oct 2 16:48:54 PDT 2002 by Aerogram]

nLA said:

Very well said!

I would like to throw in that those who reduce the universe to a set of equations are psuedo-intellectuals who are hoping you won't look too closely at what they're saying. The universe is far vaster than any over-"educated" minds who think such enormity can be reduced to a mere set of equations...after all, none of these idiots can even explain gravity!!! Gravity!!! And they think God is a set of equations?! Duh...PHONIES!!!

Until any one of you "scientists" can explain gravity, you can't mess with God. k?

teller said:

Ghatdamn! That was funny Teller!

teller said:

Do you consider Stephen Hawking, Albert Einstein, Richard Feynman, Alfred North Whitehead, Bertrand Russell and all their colleagues to be pseudo-intellectuals?

SensualMelody said:

I agree Sensual. The problem of DISCUSSING the BIBLE with an Atheist is that he doesnt believe in it to begin with. The only thing an Atheist believes in are people and their actions.

If by our actions we are judged, we need to be very careful (i'm not saying you or Ice in particular, I mean generally speaking) of how we treat each other.

Don't you agree?

IceNine said:

Hawking is DEFINITELY a pseudo-intellectual. Feynman, however is the real thing--a true genius. Whitehead I've never heard of. Sorry.

IceNine said:

Oh and Bertrand Russel...his bullshit is really out of style.