Everyone knows that the Earth is merely an incubating seed for a race of alien giants. All evolution was set in motion by these giant aliens with man as the pinnacle as a means to protect Earth from any other invading species of aliens. In a couple thousand years time, the alien seed within the Earth will begin to hatch and the Earth will break apart and be used as sustenance for the growing giant alien child.


That's what my Marvel comics told me anyway. I prefer this explanation. It's more fun!

AaronForever said:

Substratal teachings, everything stated is true within your own sect.

Gee Ice, you're getting uncharacteristically vehement. I've always respected you for the fact that, while our beliefs differ, you've always been respectful. You're basically saying that anyone who believes in God is an idiot for putting faith in a "fairy tale". Well, I disagree. You have the right to believe what you want, and you are obviously a learned man, but don't assume that someone is stupid for disagreeing with you.

You stated earlier that the Bible is flawed since it can be interpreted in so many different ways. I argue that ALL books can be interpreted to fit an agenda. Do we not have great debates on what is Constitutional in the US? Do you think the founding fathers were complete morons because people debate the meaning of certain passages? Ultimately, any book can be made to fit the meaning you want it to.

Take, for instance, the works of Nietchze. Adolf Hitler and the Nazi party used his idea of the superman to their own end. Most philosophers find Hitler's interpretation of his works to be completely flawed, but a whole lot of German's sure agreed with him. Ultimately, does this mean that Nietchze's works were any less brilliant? Does this mean that there is no truth to be found in them?

This is, of course, why many Christians prefer to refer to their beliefs as "spirituality", instead of "religion". The term "religion" has come to mean organised religion. Organised religion is what led to such atrocities as the Crusades, the Inquisition, witch trials, etc. Many people, who have studied scripture, feel that these horrors are in direct conflict with what is clearly spelled out in the Bible.

I have, myself, studied the Bible. I feel that any flaws it has are a direct result of men screwing with it, or improperly translating the original text into another language. I think God designed us to think for ourselves, and to question what we read. Not all things need to be spelled out, because we are suppossed to use the brains that God gave us. the Bible is a handbook for life, nothing more. It doesn't tell us every last detail about God, because we are suppossed to come to some of these conclusions on our own.

I realise that many "Christians" believe what they do simply because it is the way they were raised. These are the same people who do whatever their pastor says, shop at Wal-Mart because the commercials say they are cheaper, and follow all the laws of the land, because that is what they have been told to do. We are increasingly a soceity of mindless drones, and that extends to religion as much as anything. Ultimately, this is truly sad, because people have so much more potential than they realize.

But, you must understand, that not all believers fall into this category. I did not adopt a belief in a personal God on a whim. After years of research, and a hell of a lot of soul-searching, I came to realize that there is a God, and he is very much involved in our day-to-day lives. I won't bore you with the details, since I don't believe in pushing my beliefs on others (A central tenet of true Christianity is to do unto others as you would have done unto you. I don't like it when people cram their beliefs down my throat, so I don't do it to anyone either). This was a learned decision on my part, not the result of some delusional state where fairy tales take on the weight of reality. I hope that you will remember this in the future. Such blanket statements are rather off-putting (and I'm sure you've been the victim of them by so-called "Christians" in the past). No one likes to be treated like they are stupid for what they believe. I've met a whole lot of dumb atheist in my time, but I would never assume that they were representative of all of them (you are a prime example of one who has actually read up on the subject before making his decision on what he believes. Many atheists I know seem to be angry at God, and are withholding belief as a way to punish God. I personally find it rather bizzare to hate someone you don't believe exists!)

I still think you are a rather cool individual, Icenine. I don't really take offense at your statements, but I did want you to realise how they were coming off. As I said earlier, I found your tone to be uncharacteristic of you, and it was a bit disturbing. Please don't take this as a flame, because it is not. I want you to be able to express your views, but I think your usual dignified manner (or your patented sarcastic tone) are a bit more appropriate. You are one of the voices of reason on this board, and I repect you immensly. Even when you make a statement I disagree with 100%, I always regard it with respect because it comes from an educated perspective. Hell, you earned my eternal respect as soon as I found out you were as big a fan of David Lynch as I am! Now THAT is a sign of intelligence.

Peace,
Jedimaster

JediMaster said:

Sorry, I didn't mean to be mean to you or other believers... I really do respect your views and I didn't want to offend you or anyone other than SensualMelody. She is basically saying that anyone who studies the bible will come to agree with her.

Once again, you know that I fully respect the views of others and I am sorry if it seemed like a blanket statement.

It never ceases to amaze me just how many people are willing to put all their faith in one book written a long time ago and ignore the findings of so many scientists whose work can be duplicated or verified by others in another part of the world..today.

Creationism is an example of that... Time and again, you'll hear or read some fundamentalist laugh about how evolution is silly because, eh, who can imagine a fish going on shore and sprouting LEGS? Yet, we have a fossil record of creatures that were in the water most of the time and that occasionally went on shore millions of years ago. Evolution is a well documented, as the Scientific American articles proves.

Despite this, some still prefer to believe a book written by dozens of men thousands of years ago. Never mind that the world had already seen such men claiming to be inspired by a god of some type, who had told plenty of stories that were pure myth or at best mythologized interpretations of actual events. Ask the christian fundamentalists what they think of prophecies or holy stories from other faiths, and suddenly they see the potential for outright myth, given the all too human participants. But the Bible?... ALL TRUE!

I believe what I have reasons to believe. I have few reasons to believe there is a god, but so many that mankind is still incredibly ignorant of everything that there is to know to truly understand the mysteries of the universe. I have so many more reasons to think that man is a creature that tends to make up explanations for what he does not understand, and even more reasons to believe man needs a construct to deal with death...

As a matter of personal honesty, I owe it to myself to recognize what is more probable and turn away from comforting myths..

So no... I don't "believe".

TRUST
RECEIVE
BELIEVE

Isn't it interesting how when we were children,
we trusted our parents when they told us about
the tooth fairy. Why? We trusted them, because we
received a gift under our pillow, therefore, we believed.

If I told you I just baked a cake, would you trust
me to believe it. Maybe if you were here, and
you could smell the aroma of this baked cake, then
you would believe.

We trust on object, like are alarm clock in the
morning. Why, because we received the alarm clock
as the object it is and set the clock. In the
morning, the alarm goes off, therefore, we believe.

To have faith in God, you have to trust him, and
receive him into your heart. Pray, and ask for
his guidance, he will help you believe.

What is easier not to believe, or to believe?

God gave us the strength to save ourselves, and we
do this through him, because he is in each one of us.

I believe in a creator, I believe in GOD!
[This message was edited Wed Oct 2 15:46:46 PDT 2002 by EchoOfMySoul]

EchoOfMySoul said:

It is harder NOT to believe in god, as you are immediately an outcast and looked down upon by a vast majority of religious individuals. Combine that with the fact that you MUST take total responsibility for yourself and your actions and that you cannot expect some otherworldly force to punish their enemies and you have a harder choice.

IceNine said:

Echo says:

Some feel that it is hard to believe when a set
of rules is put before them regarding a belief. I
think that if you decide to believe, that God
will guide an individual. I think it is a personal
relationship, and that we all grow at a different
pace, and in different ways.

As far as you go IceNine, you aren't an outcast, I
think that you are puzzled by the complexities of the
world, and why there is so much torment, and why
God allows it. There are truly alot of answers to
be answered, but, I feel at peace knowing that
someday we will all know, and I do believe that
good will prevail.

EchoOfMySoul said:

Believing is definitely easier. In fact, primitive men spontaneously attributed supernatural explanations for natural events. It's been going on ever since.

Aerogram said:

A fine point, Aero!

Believing liberates the creations that is created by the creator or creators in this world...everything that we see by the naked eye or the third eye is a creation...a creation that was created by a intelligent mind, or minds. The metronomic design in this world is in order..in fact the metricism equations in the universe follows laws and is in direct order under the laws..the more one study astro physics the more you will see that there is complete order in its very schemes. The physiography of the earth manifest perfectly under the laws, including the universe brilliant mathematical schemes. Under popular belief that the universe manifests out of total chaos, scatteration or the "big bang", recent studies in astrophysics have proven the exact opposite. The brilliant mathematical equations in the Universe dictates that if the objects, matter, or molecules changes it's course, or break the "law" then the whole Universe will be in disarray, or in "chaos". The whole Universal scheme is mathematical more than anything. The Gradiometer of the earth gravitational field indicates the very same scheme. Nothing in the Universe is immethodical, studies in physics tried desperately to prove the opposite..but fail. The World of science and physics is slowly adopting the fact that the Universe is operating under the control of a creator, or creators.
[This message was edited Mon Oct 14 13:06:19 PDT 2002 by universe]

IceNine is a God in my eyes.

universe said:

Echo says:

I like this answer, especially for the NON-believers.

Thank u - VERY - much Universe


for peace

xenon said:

One of the many... I am the god of lesser species of crab grass.

Oh goodness, don't get him going!

sag10 said:

Please... get me going...

sag10 said:

Every organism has the right to have a god, even the lesser species of crab grass.

IceNine said:

Naughty!

I believe that love will find the way
I believe I believe I believe I believe that love is the answer.

Sorry could not resist this one