OK, I understand the meat thing. Cows and chickens on farms really don't have natural predators. So there it's not necessary to eat them. However what is the deal with Eggs and Dairy? Ok, I think it's because it's an "animal" product but isn't the point not to kill? Why the issue with eggs or dairy? Both are natural functions of each animal so it's not like you are changing the landscape of their lives like killing them. Chickens are going to lay eggs and cows will give milk. Witho or without our consumption.

Also fish tend to have predators in the sea and will eventually get eaten by something. This sounds so less evil than breeding cows for the butcher shop. But I can understand why you'd not want to kill them but that seems more like the cycle of life and therefore not really that wrong. I sometime flirt with the idea of a meatless diet but no way in hell could I ever give up eggs or milk, or should I say milk products like CHEESE . No deaths have to happen in order to get those things so I don't understand the aversion on vegans part.


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[Edited 7/25/07 15:38pm]

Me neither.

i , as a vegetarian don't understand it either

IB is gone , she might have been able to have elaborated

Don't all vegans refrain from Eggs & Dairy?

Seriously though, to many vegans it is the subjugation of the animal for the purpose of producing products that is objectionable, not just the killing or harming of them.

Stax said:

If the chicken's gonna shit an egg I'm gonna eat it! Sounds like hysterics to me.

SupaFunkyOrgangrinderSexy said:

Oh my God

SupaFunkyOrgangrinderSexy said:

I'm gonna eat it too.

jess555ja said:

Jess, if you were a Latina chicken, I'd eat your omelettes anyday

SupaFunkyOrgangrinderSexy said:

SupaFunkyOrgangrinderSexy said:

Gosh. you sound so open-minded about it. I can't wait to share my thoughts with you.

well for most vegans, it's not wanting to eat ANYTHING that comes from an animal. so that would include dairy. not to mention, that most vegans are so because they are animal rights activists, so EVEN though they're not killed in the process of of obtaining the milk, arguably they are still treatly badly so vegans don't want to contribute to that.

for ME, it kind of happened by accident. i'm an accidental vegan. i dated a vegan for 7 months or so, and ate what she eat because we spent a lot of time together, and she was an amazing cook.

when we broke up i went back my normal vegetarian diet and found out VERY quickly, that now i was lactose intolerant. so, now i'm vegan. i'm way used to the diet and i'm wearing the same size jeans i wore in high school and i'm not ashamed to say i turned 40 years old in March.


so's there's my reason.
oh and vegan pizza sounds weird, but is sooper yummy.
[Edited 7/25/07 16:03pm]

CarrieMpls said:

Well I am asking. I honestly have no idea what is so evil and wrong about consuming products that are going to be produced by the animals anyway. Change my mind!

Oh, I probably need this

SupaFunkyOrgangrinderSexy said:

I'm not a vegan, so I can't say. I think for some it has to do with nutrition and/or ick factor (such as all the pus and blood in milk, etc.), for others it has to do with the industries themselves and how the animals are treated.

Personally, I don't necessarily find it "wrong" to eat animals (though I may someday change my mind on that, I can see it happening), but I don't approve of the barbaric and inhumane ways animals who are raised as meat (or for dairy/eggs) are treated. I'm not just talking veal, I mean factory farms, chickens who have little more than 1 square foot to live in and are fed their family members all ground up. It's unethical business practices. If I could be assured every chicken who laid the eggs I was about to eat had a happy, fruitful life I'd feel a lot differently about it.

There's puss and blood in milk!?! Thank God the process of cheesing it up hides it

ButterscotchPimp said:

what do you use instead of cheese on the pizza ?


i only eat vegetarian rennet cheese btw
[Edited 7/25/07 16:20pm]

CarrieMpls said:

that sounds gross

SupaFunkyOrgangrinderSexy said:

The first thing that really opened my eyes was reading Fast Food Nation. It made me really think about and examine both what I was putting into my body and what kind of businesses I was supporting. And I don't just mean McDonalds, but the industries that support all of that. From how corrupt the beef industry practices are, how workers are treated, all the way down to how basically all processed food is flavored with chemicals. Anything that has the ingredient "natural flavors" listed has some kind of chemical compound added created in a lab in New Jersey. There is a red food dye (I can't remember the name now) that is made from beetles and it's in TONS of food such as yogurt and fruit juice and it doesn't even have to be labeled legally by it's "official" name cause of the lobbyists to the FDA.
I like to think about where my money goes, what kind of busniesses I support, etc. I don't shop at WalMart, I prefer to support local busniesses, I do my best not to support companies and industries whose busniess practices I find unethical or at the least suspect.
I'm by no means perfect. Heck, I still eat meat. But every little bit of cutting down and making a better choice counts.

CarrieMpls said:

eOK, well I don't shop Wal-Mart either and I wasn't exactly considering the whole farming of chickens and cows specifically for these products. I'm sure they aren't treated any better than the farms where they will be killed. See, you made me see something I wasn't really thinking of I was just thinking why do vegans think natural products are evil?

Dewrede said:

actually, i get it with no cheese. it sounds weird, but it's really good.
vegan cheese doesn't melt that well, and most soy cheeses have casein, which is a milk protein which is why they melt.

CarrieMpls said:

Fast Food Nation is a must read for everyone.

Most cows in the dairy industry have subclinical mastitis of at least one quadrant of their udder. Basically that means that, even though the animal may not look or feel sick, they have an infection going on in thier udder and that infection pretty much ends up in the milk. Of course milk is pasturized but that just inactivates the blood and pus, it doesn't clear it out.

Milk is the devil anyway.

Now eggs...well, that would be hard for me to give up. They're like my vice.

even with free range milk (or how it's called ?) ?
[Edited 7/25/07 16:37pm]

ButterscotchPimp said:

i've never seen them here

fuckin' moby's!

Al Gore says that caddle is a major CO2-generator, why not eat them???

JasmineFire said:

I can't imagine ever going off dairy, though. I positively looooove cheese. Snobby chesse, anyway.

But I limit my intake quite a bit. It's fairly rare I eat anything with chesse anyway, but when I order out I always order "half the cheese" and I only have it at home once a month or so, if that.

For now, I'm happy with the balance I've struck of moderation in all the animal products I consume. But I can see myself getting stricter as time goes on and I'm able to wean myself off of things. It's been a quite gradual process for me. I'm completely off chicken. I haven't eaten any (I think) in about a year. I don't bring any meat into my house to cook and I only eat beef and seafood maybe once a week or so. Occasionally I crave bacon. That's about it.

CarrieMpls said:

right?!

sheesh, supa. what is it with you and people who don't eat meat? you like eggs and burgers. great. we get it. what's so troubling about people who are vegan? who cares why they do it? why judge it? why do some people do sodoku puzzles? that shit doesn't look fun at all to me, but apparently it's popular, so god bless 'em. ya know?

i'm not a vegan but i do consider myself a "fair-weathered vegan"...that is to say, i like a lot of vegan food and i will go long stretches without eggs or dairy, but it's not out of discipline. if i want yogurt or an omelette or whatever, i'll have one. cutting down on eggs and dairy DOES make me feel better, though.

a lot of vegans don't agree with factory farming, which is not only how much meat is produced, but also dairy, eggs, etc. a lot of vegans feel it's a matter of principle - that if they shouldn't be eating the flesh of an animal, then they shouldn't be eating what comes from their bodies, either. some vegans don't think it's natural for us to be drinking another animal's milk. some vegans make the choice purely for health reasons.

it's just a choice a person makes based on what they think is right for their life.

why do people get tattoos? why do people have kids? why do people wanna know why people do things?

I actually have no problem with those who don't eat meat. I just seriously don't appreciate people dragging out the nails and the crucifix because I ate a freakin egg!

I did say I'm considering a meatless diet, does that not count for anything?

y'all are ignoring Al Gore.....

SupaFunkyOrgangrinderSexy said:

if you want my honest opinion, i think you have unresolved inner debates going on about the whole veg thing and you're taking out your arguments on the rest of us in hopes that you'll get some answers you're looking for. which, okay, that's nifty, but there are less intrusive ways of going about it - like, first of all, pretend like vegans actually want their life choice respected.

in all actuality, i think they're so used to being harshly judged and bullied that they actually freak out a little when a meat-eater is nice to them, but hey - try it! talk to a vegan as if you're genuinely interested in their lifestyle rather than looking to judge, and see how they react - i mean, they don't eat meat so it's not like they're going to have a heart attack, clearly.

CarrieMpls said:

I actually can't do dairy because i'm lactose intolerant. Sometimes I break out the lactaid to indulge in some ice cream or bread pudding.

I know where you're coming from though. I also eat meat, and probably always will to some extent, but I've cut down my intake quite a bit. I'm a strong believer in every little bit counts.

Anxiety said:

hilarity