mistermaxxx said:

I'm sorry, if you easily see that from ANY team (in this case Russell's Celtics) over the past 15 years you should be in the market for bifocals (no offense intended).

Russell's accomplishments are not lost on me at all. But no team of the free agent era has ever, or WILL ever win 12 titles in a 15 year span. Russell did not win those titles in a free agent era, so it's a clear bananas/watermelons conjecture/comparison to make. You have no example to back you up, simply because nothing close like it ever happened with the advent of free agency. There is no precedence, and until there is in a free agent era it's purely conjecture and nothing else.

Player turnover because of more money dangling in front of players' faces is so drastic comparative to Russell's heyday that it's not reasonable to even think such a thing. What Russell did will never be accomplished in any sport that has free agency. He didn't have to deal with that. The NBA prior to the advent of free agency and the NBA of the free agent era are entirely DIFFERENT beasts. You don't win a string of titles with high player turnover on a year by year basis at the rate of 10-12 titles within a 15 year span now. Come on, Maxxx, anyone who believes players coming and going as they do now wouldn't hurt a team in a quest for 10-12 titles in a span of 15 years is fooling themselves.

Oh, the ESPN remark is a reflection of the sports media climate way more than a reflection of Russell.
[This message was edited Tue Oct 1 21:20:02 PDT 2002 by Supernova]

my first statement was if you keep that 60's Team in Tact with what has gone for Hoops since the late 80's til now.

as for Free Agency&Teams Dominating Magic went to the Finals 9 times in His first 12 Years.this was during Free Agency.Bird 5 times.Jordan,Pippen 6 times&Back to Back 3-Peats.Isiah 3 straight trips&Back to Back titles.Shaq&Kobe 3 Straight&Counting&they are changing the Team yearly as did Jordan&Pippen with the Bulls.

and lets be Real on something Jordan more than Likely got Suspended for Gambling that kinda explains the AHHH Baseball Career.anyway there is no telling how Many Rings He got with Pippen there alongside?&they changed Teams Yearly.

but the Lakers are Winning with even Less.as long as you have One or two Main Players you can Win a Bunch of titles.

you can put Shaq&Kobe with the Grizzles&3-Peat.

Phil Jackson Coached two Teams 9 Titles in 12 Years with the changing of the Guard.

if Shaq has at least 7 Years in the tank&doesn't lose or get Hurt that could be 10 Rings??

Russell would still have alot of Rings even now.

this Laker Run proves my Point.

mistermaxxx said:

I don't know what you mean, but...


You do realize the differences between significant player changes and minute player changes right? And none of those things you mentioned is even close to winning 11 titles in 13 years.


There's definitely more to it than him "wanting to fulfill a baseball dream and spend more time with family" nonsense. But if you don't think the Bulls or any other team would have had their hands FULL with a Hakeem Olajuwan-led Rockets team you're fooling yourself again. Whether they (the Rockets) would have beaten the Bulls can only be speculated upon, but know this; the Bulls never faced a Center the caliber of a Hakeem in his prime. Nor a Shaq in his (current prime) either. Both teams also had one of the greatest clutch shooters of at least the last decade in Robert Horry. Houston also had Clyde Drexler in his prime.


Yes, but at the same time it's not always that simple. Minute changes have to be made to keep the team young for as long as possible, and for team chemistry to be up to par. If Kobe hadn't matured into a more well-rounded player after going through some growing pains, the Lakers would still be looking for that first title of the Shaq era. And Shaq's game is so much more refined compared to what it was during his Orlando days. The entire team gelled. You can't replace Horry in his prime and expect another player to come in and play as well - remember; this is a guy that has a history of 3 point DAGGERS late in big games. Did it with Houston, doing it with the Lakers. You CAN'T replace him and expect more of the same. Rick Fox is a monster in the post season when it comes to defense. He's sometimes iffy throughout the regular season, but always picks it up in the post season. Team chemistry can't be signifiantly tampered with to continue winning consecutive titles. The players around you count for something, even if they're not the best two players on the floor they know how to play well within the scheme of the coach's game plan and the 2 superstars.



I don't buy it. See above. But I don't deny they'd be a winning team.


Another bananas/watermelon point you bring up. Jackson is a coach with 2 different teams combining those titles. Your argument says nothing about 2 different teams with the same coach.


I'm not even gonna trip like that. There are a ton of 'ifs' if you really ponder it.



I never said he wouldn't have a lot, I said he wouldn't have 10-12 within a 15 year span. Let's keep it in context.


You just majorly undercut your argument; 3 titles in 3 years compares to 11 in 13 that Bill Russell accomplished? No. Not close. You keep taking some diversionary roads that have nothing to do with one player winning 10-12 titles within 15 years in the free agent era. Which doesn't prove anything.

Cut me...
[This message was edited Tue Oct 1 23:40:49 PDT 2002 by Supernova]

as much as I couldn't stand the Bulls they would have easily beaten the Rockets.everybody knows that.

Rockets were lucky they didn't have to face the Sonics because the Sonics had the Rockets Number until what 97?

"DEFENSE" wins Championships no matter who you have on your team period.

mistermaxxx said:

No, everybody doesn't, because some speculate it might have been different had they faced a Center-led team the caliber of Olajuwan since they never did during their run.


Seeing as how the Rockets won back to back titles I wouldn't say they were "lucky" about anything. Winning one title can maybe be construed as luck - if you don't repeat. They did, and proved it wasn't a fluke. I didn't see any Supersonic titles being won since then.


Yep. And the Rockets had plenty of that. Especially their inside game where a team would have to contend with one of the greatest Centers to ever play the game: Hakeem Olajuwan.

mistermaxxx said:

No, everybody doesn't, because some speculate it might have been different had they faced a Center-led team the caliber of Olajuwan since they never did during their run.


Seeing as how the Rockets won back to back titles I wouldn't say they were "lucky" about anything. Winning one title can maybe be construed as luck - if you don't repeat. They did, and proved it wasn't a fluke. I didn't see any Supersonic titles being won since then.


Yep. And the Rockets had plenty of that. Especially their inside game where a team would have to contend with one of the greatest Centers to ever play the game: Hakeem Olajuwan.

I was Big on "Dream Shake" but the Rockets wouldn't beat the Bulls.the truth is Jordan was Forced out of the League for a Minute.

I was Glad for Clyde the Glide Drexler&of course Robert Horry but you know Jordan&the Bulls weren't gonna Lose.

now Shaq's Lakers would Beat the Bulls IMHO but not Hakeem's Rockets.

Sonics had there Number during there Title Runs.the Rockets were Very Lucky or did you not Following there Seeding?? Remember the First Run down 3-1 to the Suns&Came back after Blowing two Games at Home.the Next Year they were 6th Seed&had to battle to win again.I'd say they were Lucky.

and let's not forget just during that Year when the Rockets won the First Title Hakeem was all Packed&Ready to go the Lakers.just like Horry almost a Piston but thanks to Sean Ellott Blowing His Y/A Test Horry was able to still be there for the Rings.Hakeem was living prove of my Point of Winning during Free Agency.

until they Got Clyde who else did they have that Scared anybody? I Remember when Dream went to the Finals with Ralph Sampson back in 86.Wilt Chamberlin put Hakeem into Perspective in His "Who's Running the Asylum" Book.

I give You Props for Battling.you would Be SuperBadd in a James Brown Way on a "Debate Team"

Something that made me

Supernova said:

Supernova needs to get off of Magic Johnson's jock. (Or whoever jock she is riding -- I didn't actually read her posts )







[This message was edited Wed Oct 2 20:02:21 PDT 2002 by 2the9s]