heartbeatocean said:

Ace said:

heartbeatocean

Not trying to be adversarial. Just stating my opinion, as I feel it's important for those suffering from potentially fatal depression who attach a stigma to meds.

Ace said:

Yeah, I'm just trying to bring the stigma out in the open and work with it, bring it some light.

heartbeatocean said:

Ordinary ups and downs are like you said, ordinary. you can cope with them normally as the levels of serotonin are balanced in your body.

With depression you see the downs dark as hell, and the ups bright as heavens. The perscribed pills, regular exercising/walking, Psychiatric check ups every now and again help you get by better.

Also, most importantly, reaching very high levels of depression is usually when you get the social life out of your system which could be terribly harmful 'cause then you'll find yourself alone and realise you're locked in an awful territory, that's where medication and therapy come in very handy.

heartbeatocean said:

um....I can't agree with this at all. I think that its case by case, person by person. I'm all for the holistic approach but there are some good uses for antidepressants.


I know you keep saying that depression has its place in enlightenment. I disagree. I think that there are times in life that when things are tough. When I had three relatives die and was unemployed for two years, I fought off depression because thats not going to be helpful in healing. Going through the trial of the situation was the enlightenment NOT depression.

Depression is about an altered sense of reality. That's never healthy or is never needed to find a deeper sense of self. I know that trials make you stronger...

PricelessHo said:

Agreed. I have come to the conclusion that depression tends to be misunderstood by people who do not suffer from it.

I think they're over-prescribed. Most of the people who are on them don't need to be on them, particularly kids. They'll put a moody 16 year old on Prozac because they think she's going to kill herself when in reality, she's just being a regular moody 16 year old.

I'm not going to say they don't have positive applications, but I'm distrustful of the reasons many people are taking them.

guitarslinger44 said:

Tbhey don't have any positives at all. People are totally ignorant to what they are made for; TO MAKE MONEY; THAT'S IT!

icke4presidant said:

Care to tell us where you got your medical degree?

This is about doctors, not patients. Everybody has the right to want to feel better, including very mildly depressed people. Given the opportunity to feel better, and with no stigma attached to it (not that I'm saying there should be), it's only natural people will want something they're told will help. I think the 'laziness' argument isn't fair, unless you're directing it at doctors.

mdiver said:

A close friend is an highly qualified biochemist and former member of the British association for Nutritional medicine. I myself have studied extensively and know the history.

Natural medicine is PURPOSELY suppressed. The biggest drug pushers are not standing on a corner!
[Edited 7/14/07 4:19am]

icke4presidant said:

[snip - CarrieMpls] if you think a comment like that gives you credence

i've always had a thing about not taking tranquillers- as i watched my mum pop them every day 4 years- well over the prescibed amounts- but i have been off and on anti-depressents for over 15 years- for anxiety ,panic attacks and depression.(sometimes all three at same time).
anti-depressants r different 2 the tranquillers- but it took me a long time 2 b convinced of it.

i was opposed at first 2 the meds- i stared at my meds 4 about an hour b4 i took that 1st one- but they definately helped. i was actually housebound 4 about 2 wks b4 i started the meds- could have stayed there 4 eva- except i had an understanding gp who organised counselling as well as medication.(and a supportive husband helps). i didnt eat, couldnt function- was a real mess.


but no anti depressants 4 me 4 a long time- and this even included the passing of my father- i knew 2 expect depression then, and was equipped 2 cope with it- its when the chemicals in the brain go haywire that i need them.

i still have sad/ blue days like everyone else, but i no if it gets 2 bad 4 a long time- i need 2 c my dr

im now on arthritis medication- and it took a long time 4 me 2 b convinced i really needed them as well

but they work-i notice if i skip them 4 a few days

Ace said:

good point ace
my rhematologist told me if i was diabetic, id take insulin, so wots the difference
anti depressants r no different- its just ppl cant c inside the brain, like they can see dodgy joints.

when i was on anti-d's, if i stopped them, or 4got 2 take them 4 a few days- id get all shaky, worse than i was b4 i started- u really need help "stopping" them as u need 2 come off them slowly.
sorry about the novella

mdiver said:

carry on believing these drugs are for your own good then; [flame snip - CarrieMpls]

icke4presidant said:

You are real big a tough from behind your screen. It cracks me up the way keyboard warriors like you when they cant debate resort to name calling. How very grown up of you icke

People have self medicated for a long time- alcohol, drugs, caffeine - other natural substances.

I do not agree with handing out scripts to just anyone for depression.
I think more needs to be done to find out the cause of the depression.
To say that all anti- depressants are bad is a ridiculous blanket statement obviously coming from someone with no personal experience with depression.

There are many supplemental alternatives and many avenues out there- they all take lots of time and money.
There is no easy fix or solution but I know from my DAILY work experience with antidepressants and depression that it does help some ppl- I see it everyday.
So who am I to tell ppl that it should not be available to them just because they did not work wonders for me or because I do not think it is a good idea.
For some ppl it is like taking a daily pill for their diabetes.
Some really need meds to help a chemical imbalance.
My only wish as i have said is I wish we had better tests to detect exactly what chemicals ppl are lacking so we can treat them with what they really need.
[Edited 7/14/07 4:44am]

icke4presidant said:

I think we have a conspiracy theorist among us.

Is this Tom Cruise?

P.S. There are medications for delusional paranoia.

Ace said:

Ace said:

Please Do not get him started...

Ace said:

wow; you must be american

you do not live in the real world

mdiver said:

Grown ups shouldn't follow like sheep

icke4presidant said:

OK I am not a very patriotic American - those who know me can back that up but WTF is up with that statement?

UNREAL!

You need a reality check

icke4presidant said:

[quote:]

mdiver said:

[quote:]

You are real big a tough from behind your screen. It cracks me up the way keyboard warriors like you when they cant debate resort to name calling. How very grown up of you icke [/quote:]

Grown ups shouldn't follow like sheep[/quote:]

There you go again, you just can't debate can you?

If you knew me you would know i am no sheep, but you just make blanket statements.

[snip - CarrieMpls]

shanti0608 said:

About what?

Dangerous prescription drugs are often prescribed in america; don't fall for the crap.

the more depressed people; the more prescriptions; the more income.

icke4presidant said:

look I know that you have not taken the time to read any of my previous posts on this thread so don't try talking to me with your blanket statements.
I guess the US is the only country that writes scripts for antidepressants.

mdiver said:

ha look who's talking

How many biochemists do you know? How many doctors? I PERSONALLY do as well as my own research; antidepressants are not needed. There is other methods to treat depression involving amino acids, fatty acids, vitamins and minerals.The brain is 60% fat.

shanti0608 said:

I am starting to think that someone here could use a mood stablizer

mdiver said:

well you go ahead then

icke4presidant said:

I didn't say that there were not other and in many cases better ways. I simply disagreed with your statement that anti-depressants are there to make money.

The jump you make is based on your crazy conspiracy theories.

I know many doctors and several bio-chemists as well as some research scientists, as it goes i am a believer that chemical treatment is applicable only in unusual cases, treatment with natural forms is far better and long run has a better result but that has to be on a case by case basis.

Then again if you had engaged instead of flaming me you would have known that.

icke4presidant said:

Exactly and if you read other ppls posts you would see that those things were mentioned.
I am glad you can live in a world that is so black and white and perfect.

I know that because I am American that you probably do not/will not listen to what I have to say but....
I get what you are trying to say some times but you need to realise that your delivery sucks.
No one is going to listen to you when you make blanket statements like you do.