heartbeatocean said:

But isn't that "valuable information" only valuable to your quest for long term happiness?

I think pills are an unrealistic shortcut for most, and I totally agree w/ you about doing the work to create real happiness.

But, no, I don't think happiness is overrated, and if there was a pill that gave TRUE happiness (not good feeling while your life crumbles & addiction & hangovers, etc) I'd definitely take it. Of course it's a silly argument since there won't ever be a pill for real and true happiness
[Edited 7/12/07 14:19pm]

JasmineFire said:

I'm just playing the devil's advocate with my previous responses because I want to understand this better. I have friends who are bipolar -- one of them keeps skipping her medications and then ends up in the psych ward. Then her life is turned upside down and she loses her job and home, etc. If she would just take her medications...it would be okay.

But I don't quite understand where the line is with depression.

I also had a friend kill himself a few months ago. He was on anti-depressants for years and lost the battle.

I suppose it's a personal choice to take medications. I want to be able to respect this choice.

NDRU said:

I don't know, I take the more Zen approach of embracing all of life, the ups and downs. This is from eastern spirituality -- Moods, emotions, thoughts are the realm of maya, illusion, change...the goal is to tap into an eternal reality which goes beyond pleasure and pain, attraction and aversion. This reality is the nature of bliss and peace and we can access it. That is what I call true happiness and it is already our nature, available to us. It doesn't mean that we stop having moods or feelings, on the contrary. The problem is removing the limitations, clouds, blinds spots, ignorance in our psyche which has gathered for a number of reasons.

I realize this is all grounded in my own belief system, so ignore me if it offends you.

heartbeatocean said:

That's a more realistic approach. Forget the happy pill. I don't believe in it and I don't believe in constant happiness.

I believe we live in a balance, and there's equal measure of joy & suffering and every shade of grey in between. A king may suffer attacks of conscience that a beggar might not, but the king obviously knows joys that the beggar doesn't.

Also I think that our experience balances itself out, so the old adage No Pain No Gain actually makes sense. Work hard and you're rewarded. Self imposed "suffering" (it needn't be self torture!) might bring happiness. Similarly, do drugs and you crash afterwards. Our bodies are made to be balanced, not happy or sad.

And ditto on the "my belief so don't be offended" thing

I have been on anti-depressants for as long as i could remember, but my doctor told me from the start i could be relying on them forever if i prefered regular medication to regular therapy sessions.

It is true that letting go of them makes your life utter hell, esp. if you quit them after a long period of time: strong headaches, insomnia and real bad temper.

Not that i tried to drop them but i happened to be somewhere for 2 weeks when i ran out of pills and then realised I forgot my perscription back home so my requests got denied by pharmacists. It was a terrible and dark period of time.

But honestly if you pay attention to such little incidents and make sure you're always fixed then you're more than fine. I am very happy with my pills

I know someone who's taken them for years and she's no happier than anyone. But actually I think that's a good thing. She just seems normal, sometimes happy, sometimes not.

In the end it's a personal choice. I know I could have stayed on them (my mood qualified to just about any doctor), but I didn't like them. So I chose to fight it naturally. But some people like them so who am I to judge them? I wouldn't want someone to tell me not to drink coffee or take an Ibuprofin.
[Edited 7/12/07 15:08pm]

sure, they're no magic pills afterall

I don't consider myself peppy all the time with them but looking at my life pre and after them whew where have they been.

But then again i walk everyday for no less than 40 minutes which really boosts the effects of the medicine.

.
[Edited 7/12/07 15:12pm]

The best part of being on anti-depressants is being off of them for awhile. You go insane and it is amazing.

NDRU said:

Good points I agree.
I have been on antidepressants off and on several times. I have been told I have situational depression. I used them to help me when I really hit bottom and only once has the meds really helped me I think.
It is a tough frustrating road because they all effect us differently so some times it takes a few times to get it right. I make myself do therapy, journal and exercise whenever I feel depressed. I would never let myself rely just on the meds to get through.
I work for a clinical research facility and we are doing 2 studies right now for depression in women.
I have seen such a difference in these women but it has taken some time to get into their systems. What works for one does not always work for the others so it is trial and error. Which is frustrating.
I have mixed feelings about the meds. I have seen it help many ppl over the years including myself but I hope I will never need to be on the for a long period of time. That seems to be the problem is when you have to stop them.
I wish they would do more research on finding out the cause- which imbalanced occur and try to treat just the cause of the problem instead of guessing.
[Edited 7/12/07 17:32pm]

I was on them for awhile, but not currently. I still might need them as depression runs in my family. They can save you from killing yourself. Trust.
[Edited 7/12/07 17:52pm]

heartbeatocean said:

"According to her" would be the key phrase here.

Spookymuffin said:

Old wives' tale.

heartbeatocean said:

Philosophically-philoschmophically. If your leg's broken, you're gonna need a crutch.

Spookymuffin said:

Are insulin-users "addicted" to insulin?


There are doctors prescribing anti-depressants to people who don't need them, yes.

Spookymuffin said:

Physically?

heartbeatocean said:

Warren Zevon felt the same way. Ask him how that turned out. Here's his address:

heartbeatocean said:

Anti-depressants do not eliminate unhappiness. And some people sometimes do not survive these periods of depression.

You do not need depression to attain enlightenment or self-knowledge; that's a myth.

heartbeatocean said:

Good questions.

pinkgirl93 said:

I would think that these statements come from people who see positive physical changes from exercise that improve their self-esteem (ergo, their outlook in general).

heartbeatocean said:

Uh...no.


True. But some people suffer from serious, chronic depression and those ways aren't enough for them.


Discipline? Yes. Risk? Meh - not so much.


Without those pills, some people will never get to that work:

Ace is neat.

NDRU said:

This is entirely besides the point. We're not talking about telling people what to take or what not to take. I am so not interested in this. It's about understanding another viewpoint, another method, another take on the world. That's my intention so that I can better understand my very good friends and accept their choices and not judge. I'm not proud that I feel a little judgmental, so that's why the thread. Working it out...hearing other points of view...

Ace said:

That's my point, Ace. My best friends are on them, I know these people very well, respect them in every way. That's why I'm trying to gain a deeper understanding, because it's out of my personal realm of experience. I'm not saying I know better, I'm just asking for information.

Ace said:

It's not so simple and I think you know that.

Ace, big ups and and to everything you've said. I'm impressed with you for taking this discussion, I don't have the time for it. I know of at least three people who wouldn't still be alive if it wasn't for anti-deps - me, my mother and a very good friend. So if you think that it's bullshit, whatever. Just wait until you or somebody you love is doing that badly. I almost want it to happen to all of you just 'cos. Almost.

Ace said:

I never claimed any of the three things you listed above.

1) I know anti-depresseants do not eliminate unhappiness. That's absurd.

2) If you read my post above, I had a friend kill himself last February. He was on anti-depressants (I don't know if he was at the time, but I assume so) I know all about people not surviving depression.

3) I never said anyone needed depression for enlightenment or self-knowledge. What I meant is that it can be useful or that it is a required stage for some people. Sure there are great swans who are born enlightened and others who become so by grace. Granted, suffering for "salvation" is more prevalent in Catholic theology.

Teacher said:

Fuck, nobody seems to be listening to the depth with which I am asking these questions. Really, you don't get where I'm coming from and neither does Ace.

So let's all give Ace the big for a list of one-liners.

Ace said:

I understand that.

No one will fully get the picture unless they walk in our shoes

heartbeatocean said:

I'm not talking about YOU. I know you're sincere and ask cos you wanna know. I'm talking about the assholes who act all self righteous like we who rely on anti-deps pop them cos we think it's fun or something.
Heartbeatocean, if YOU want to ask questions of somebody who takes anti-deps, feel free to orgnote me.