Imago said:

Psychodelicide said:

Girl, the door is OPEN!
[Edited 6/30/07 12:40pm]

Yeah, I agree... the option isnt to abandon America ( Unless you are in lurve like Shanti) but to work on her.. We need to be more pro active like Irri and others. We need to fight for change on the inside. As for socialised medicine, it is not without flaw either.... people wait on lists for needed surgerys and the like... I remember Jon being very ill and it taking like 12 hours sitting to see a Dr. It is not just our country that lacks proper health care.

Here ( Los Angeles particularly) Has millions of visits to the ER occuring anually by individuals with no money and no legal stance... ( We have a turn no one away policy) This is causing more and more hospitols to go bankrupt in the area.... How do we fix the system for citizens when we cant handle the damage sustained from illegal members?

My car brokedown on the way to Fantastic 4: Rise of The Silver Surfer.
So I couldn't go to Canada even if I wanted to.

There's no point in getting upset by a "documentary" with skewed information.
"There's No Free Lunch" to quote Milton Friedman.
The Brits and French pay 10% of their income for government health care.
Although the system is depicted as efficient, it's not. In Britain, 1 million people are on waiting lists and another 200,000 are waiting to get on a waiting list.
100,000 surgeries are cancelled due to shortages. Certain drugs for treatment aren't available depending on where you live.
The French health care system has a 13.5 billion dollar deficit.
In Cuba, when Fidel was ill last year, he flew in a specialist from Spain.
[Edited 7/1/07 14:13pm]

Muse2NOPharaoh said:

Completely agree.

Muse2NOPharaoh said:

thank you

but i wish that the work i've done with free medical clinics had not been necessary - too many people had to do without while these programs make a small dent in the overall problem.

i grew up in a universal healthcare system. neither i nor my family experienced excessive waits - and both of my parents had serious health problems. in other words, i'd love nothing more than for the free clinics to be out of commission tomorrow. it may cost me some consulting fees, but it will be well worth it.

xplnyrslf said:

Excellent points.

It's undeniable fact that aspects of the American healthcare system has serious problems which desperately need to be addressed and reformed, however --- socialized medicine isn't the ultimate 'cure'.

I admire Michael Moore for many reasons, have been an appreciator of his work for many years and think it's terrific how he brings important social issues to the fore to be examined and discussed, but it's true that he is a master of emotional manipulation and at the art of propoganda. IMO, the other side of the issue(s) need to be explored and researched by the viewer of his film/s.

xplnyrslf said:

I heard that it actually turned out to be Dr. Vinnie Boomba.

Too many people make too much money under this system for it to change in any significant way without some major major shake ups in Washington.

gemini13 said:

Don't forget it's Michael Mooore so it is one sided.

We have bigger problems than pointing fingers and calling ppl names. If you want to see the movie- see it , if you don't then don't.

Maybe they will come out with a counter to this movie to show the other side since Michael Moore is one sided.

I certainly am no expert in these things as I've only been in Canada for 10 months, but I've not personally met a Canadian yet -- liberal or conservative -- who's complained of waiting times. All the ones I've talked to -- with the exception, maybe, of the Quebecois, whose provincial management and spending I'm told is... er... shall we say "peculiarly casual" among Canadians -- seem to love their system.

And the several times I've made appointments to be seen, I was booked for visits within 48 hours, my waiting room time never exceeded 20 minutes and my prescriptions were 100% reimbursed... and I'm not even a citizen.

Just sayin'
[Edited 6/30/07 14:51pm]

xplnyrslf said:

I'd be interested in knowing your source(s) for these numbers.

Lammastide said:

IrresistibleB1tch said:

That is what I am talking about.

shanti0608 said:

i can't believe that Luntz-esque talking points like "socialized medicine" are still being used...

Lammastide said:

http://www.mtv.com/movies...tory.jhtml
Kurt Loder from "Rolling Stone".More to come.....

http://www.devspace.com/~...oss/?p=345
[

http://en.wikipedia.org/w...film_Sicko
[

http://www.outsidethebelt...badly_run/
[Edited 6/30/07 18:40pm]

xplnyrslf said:

Kurt Loder?!?!

IrresistibleB1tch said:

Sorry that was my response as well but he has been around a while...

Well to each his/her own....what ever makes you sleep better at night they say.

xplnyrslf said:

Thanks. I'll need to check out "Dead Meat."

shanti0608 said:

Be nice. Kurt is a good journalist.

It is good to stay well rounded... I figured he must be if he is still reporting- right?

No disrespect.
It is good to stay well rounded.
[Edited 6/30/07 14:58pm]

shanti0608 said:

sorry, this may have been a knee-jerk reaction, but frankly, when i think healthcare crisis, i don't exactly think Loder

IrresistibleB1tch said:

But how is Michael Moore, a filmmaker (talented and savvy as he is), anymore of a real authority on healthcare than a journalist such as Loder? Before this film came out, if you'd thought 'healthcare crisis', would you have thought Michael Moore?
[Edited 6/30/07 15:45pm]

IrresistibleB1tch said:

Illustrator said:

That picture sure gets a lot of mileage around here.

Illustrator said:

IDIOT...
sorry did I say that out loud..