Not sure if this is a GD or P+R subject but i get riled when i go in there so i will start this here and see where we go.

I was chatting with someone today who seems to feel that working the system of benefits if justified because the government offers so its ok to take.

IE There seems to be a feeling of "well the government says i can apply for this benefit and this benefit therefore i am entitled to it"

Based upon the fact that this family has flitted between the US and the UK, paid in to both systems and settled nowhere (much of the time they were in one place the main bread winner did not work and therefore paid nothing in to the social system).

I was a little harsh on them today because i was offended that I am asked to pay for their benefits because the husband won't work (he has diabetes butthis seems to totally cripple him so he "can't" work.....my ex was IDD...she worked)

TBH it was the expectation that pissed me off not the idea that one might need help in any given situation.

Any thoughts? Was i a complete arse or not?

Honestly, if you qualify for help in the US you are bad enough off that you need it. Even to receive unemployment you must prove you are actively seeking work.
I don't know about the UK, though.

CarrieMpls said:

That is pretty much what i said because they got turned down for help in the US but the reply was "well they turn down 99% of applications and you have to go to court to get it....but once you do they cant take it away"

The system is easy to abuse here.....slackers are rewarded

mdiver said:

oh, they can take it away in a heartbeat here. It depends on why you need it, if you were just laid off or if you truly have a disability and can't work, for how long, how many people you support, etc.
No system is abuse-proof, but I think there can be a happy medium and I believe the majority of people wouldn't want to rely on it anyway. As for your friend, it's tough for me to say without knowing their personal situation.

CarrieMpls said:

Yeah i know what you are saying and i guess my feeling was more based on the expectation, i mean i have NEVER taken welfare, i have been laid off and i have had financial difficulties in the past but it is up to ME to sort that. I was pissed at the expectation that welfare would look after them yanno. Sort of...."well the welfare is better and will take care of us so we will go there"..

mdiver said:

Bullshit! We have tons of folk on the system for a career ! It is also generational. I know several females that are educated FOR FREE by the state and at the end say.. I have decided I don't want to do that as a career and get back into 2 more years schooling whilst child care is paid by the state and they are sitting in my salon getting services and laughing about it..

I am in no way implying there arent single moms out there that do need the support... however the system is seriously abused!

CarrieMpls said:

I wish I could say the same I know many slackers in california that pop out babies at an alarming rate on the system and dont see another way of life....

Muse2NOPharaoh said:

Its like that here, not that this is necessarily the situation i mean i dont know EVERYTHING but that is how i felt

The system should be built to educate, get people on their feet on on their way but instead it breeds apathy and complacency.


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[Edited 6/24/07 10:00am]

mdiver said:

I see what you're saying. But I guess, in a way, that's what it's there for. For the most part I live paycheck to paycheck and if I were laid off tomorrow I wouldn't be able to pay August rent without it. Perhaps that's poor planning on my part but that remains the reality of it.

But I can understand if someone isn't even trying, if that's your perspective on it. Unfortunately, a lot of times it becomes a situation that spirals around itself to perpetuate the need for assistance. It becomes better to get full assitance than work for a low paying job because you can't fill in the gaps.

All in all, I don't think you were being an arse.

CarrieMpls said:

hehehehe ok then

I see what you mean though, i am not very good at seeing it like that. I guess i am old skool and think that its there to fill the gaps...work and welfare makes up the slack yanno....not sit on your arse and let ME pay

CarrieMpls said:

The system is there for just what you said... To get individuals through a bad time. I can point to many families that have been on it their whole lives!

Muse2NOPharaoh said:

Yeah, but I think we agree in that it perpetuates itself to make it difficult to motivate them to get off of it.

And I admit, my experiences are very different. I live quite a sheltered, privileged life to be sure. And I think it also varies from state to state, what is available and for how long. And for me, with so many friends in the social work side of things while I hear the good and bad (those that have that sense of entitlement, who feel they shouldn't HAVE to do anything), in general I can't help but feel we simply aren't doing enough to take care of our less fortunate. I think the problems lean much more in favor towards we need to be doing more than less. But I think the idea is restucturing so it gets people back on their feet and doesn't incent them to stay on it.

I think all of you should service me.

Could everyone please end each post with

"and no Phil..you were not an arse".....thank you

mdiver said:

I think you are entitled to your opinion and if this person asked for it or if this person is coming to you for advice or support then you should express your opinion.
Just keep in mind that just because you express your opinion- that does not mean they will see it your way.
I get frustrated with ppl that work the system here in the US as well. If there's a system to help others there's always a million more that learn how to take advantage and beat the system.


Oh and No Phil you were not an arse....







unless you were pushy and rude about your opinion and did not let the other person speak..lol
Now you know I could not agree with you without throwing in a butt or unless.

shanti0608 said:

mdiver said:

Yes Phil ... sometimes you are an arse