InfinitiesHeaven said:

Isn't choosing the option of abortion being "prepared"? I don't believe in using abortion as your only method of birth control but if someone knows they aren't ready for kids I don't think it's wise to force them (through laws, pressure, guilt) to have the kid.

SupaFunkyOrgangrinderSexy said:

Exactly! Just how many more unloved under cared for kids do we want to bring in this world? Surely there is enough isnt there?

Parenthood is a HUGE change to your life. People who do not have kids have no comprehension of how huge it is. You cant. Just deciding "well, ok, I'll be a parent then" is naive and stupid.

Do people appreciate that a mans sperm is technically alive. Is wanking against the law? As Another said, were do we draw these boundaries?

Give the gift of life.You can make someone else's dream come true for people that can't have kids and let some good come out of a bad situation.

Supa I do believe in abortions in certain situations as I've stated above. However, if a couple does not want kids, is not prepared to face that responsibility, then there are other options available. (Adoption). I know many women who cannot have kids and would love to adopt. Unfortunately there are not many newborns available (especially in the US). And overseas adoptions can run upwards of $10,000 or more. Abortion is too easy of an option.

Also there was a film done in which they filmed an actual abortion being performed. I'm not certain how far along the pregnancy was, but they filmed the fetus. The baby actually tried to move away from the instruments that were used to abort it. At one point the mouth actually opened as though the fetus were trying to scream. Did you know that the brain stem, brain, etc are among the first things to form on an embryo and that the heart begins beating at about 6 weeks of pregnancy, which is when most women first discover they are pregnant? The video proved that they are somewhat aware of their surroundings. So what constitutes life? A beating heart? Brain activity? A six week embryo has both. When abortion is the choice made, do you know they just suction the baby out of you? That beating heart and brain activated embryo isn't even given a chance. It would be the same as someone stopping the heart of a man, woman, or child. So perhaps the child isn't wanted by the one carrying it, BUT there is someone in the world that would be willing to take and love that child unconditionally, as though they themselves gave birth to that child.

You are looking at this from the view that your nephews would have been better off aborted than born into the conditions they were born into. One of your nephews may grow up to be the one to find cure for AIDS, or to bring about World Peace. Where would the world then be without that person?

Mom, i'm gone for like 15 minutes i get back and i have all these new relatives... damnit!!!

oh well...whats up brothers and sisters? and Pook?

i think that this discussion is a personal choice, only the individual can make this decision and know whether THEY will be able to live/Deal with the consequences. rape is bad (its my opinion), child molestation is bad (again my opinion), abortion (is practical and sometimes necessary - again its my opinion), having a baby be u single or not (is a choice, please choose wisely)... my what a wonderful way to start my day...

Wow tough question.

If I were in this situation at a young age (meaning in my teen years) I would have an abortion. That's just what *I* would do, some people say it's right, some say it's wrong you're damned if you do and damned if you don't. Everyone fucks up.

If it were to happen to me now I would have it. I'm old enough to be able to take care of it and I have a stable job. I do everything possible not to get myself in this situation now (besides abstinence ) but i'm still taking a risk and I understand the consequences...

If I were raped, no I would not have it. I could not carry the child for 9 months, it would be a constant reminder and I would probably kill myself if I haven't gone crazy already.

Humans have such moral quanderies! I'd just eat any unwanted children of mine. Of course, if I'm going to take over the earth with my race of Human/Gillman hybrids, I really shouldn't eat any of my young!

ScarLett said:

I know my lovely and in having other siblings the possiblities are endless.

Just an aside, i talked to my girlfriend last night about this very subject! Come to find out that she was a victim of rape and the child she has is a product of this...I didn't know.

The love that she has for her son is like no other I have ever seen. She doesn't associate him with the act of horror, but instead says that he is the gift that she was waiting for...This is her only child, there will be no others due to her biological clock... She is incredible. By the way I asked her permission to share this with you...

Hi my Pook!

Sag your friend has guts. I could not go through that. I don't even know if I could survive the rape, to me that is one of the worst things that can happen to a woman. I've seen what it has done to 2 of my friends and it's just horrible.

CarrieLee said:

You are right it is horrible!

She is strong and because she wanted to be the best to her child went through some intense therapy..

Her outlook on life is like no other I know.

InfinitiesHeaven said:

Ditto.

bkw said:

What does this last sentence have 2 do with ANYTHING?...lol...

Tom said:

Could it be? Common sense?

bkw said:

So then what your saying, technically, is that everytime a man jacks off he's having millions of abortions...

AnotherLoverHolenYoHead said:

So because it is legal that makes it right, in ur opinion? legal= morally right?

Does the government tell u what is right or does God, Krishna,Buddha, YOURSELF,etc. tell u what is right?

I dont understand y people bring the "it's legal" thing in2 play. It's not a question of whether it's legal--we know it is (at least in the U.S.)...


.
[This message was edited Wed Sep 25 9:20:02 PDT 2002 by Nep2nes]

SupaFunkyOrgangrinderSexy said:

It'll be lovely when you learn how to debate without basically calling someone's ideas stupid.

Young thinking? Well, I am 16, thank you.

If you don't want in a car accident, then don't fucking drive! Walk your ass everywhere.

People can not want kids until they're blue in the damn face. If you're going to have sex, you should realize children are a possible outcome, and be ready to accept responsbility. Having an abortion because it's legal, or because you don't want kids - although it's ultimately your fault you're having the kid - is, in my estimation, a dumb decision.

But then again, in the words of bkw, I'm a dumbass because I hate children, but I'm an anti-abortion conservative.

Actually Tom u are Dead wrong... when u decide to do drugs become and alcoholic its not just yourself that u taint its your unborn children as well, so no everything that U do and put into your body male/female will be DNA'd to that baby whether its wanted or unwanted...

furthermore...where are the freaking lawyers?

what is Legal and what is Ethical are TWO completely different things, because its legal does NOT make it ethical and because its ethical does not mean its legal.

ergo... abortions are legal - and until the Borg starts running shit out here, its gonna stay that way.. whether i believe in prolife or prochoice...

its ur life and many will interfere with it, just keep on keepin On...decide ur way

i still say eat it

BattierBeMyDaddy said:

First off I wasn't implying that your ideas were stupid, rather that your youth prevents you from thinking clearly on the issue. Your argument holds no water, ESPECIALLY with the analogy I made about driving a car. Simply because an accident CAN happen should not mean that people stop driving cars. Same goes for sex. You are coming from a totally unrealistic angle and one that may be right for YOU but isn't right for the majority of the people.

SupaFunkyOrgangrinderSexy said:

I agree with you Supa...

Battier I respect your views, but you can't shit on people that think differently. Anotherlover worded it perfectly "I'll take care of my body, you take care of yours. End of story..."

I would like to clarify some things. First off, I'm not saying that I wish my nephews were aborted. They are here and this is what we (my family) have to and DO deal with. I love them very much. Since this discussion cannot be held without people bringing God and Religion into it, I would like for you to honestly answer my question. The question I pose is this: Is it more "Godly" to PREVENT people from living lives of abuse or to allow the situation to happen by bringing children into the situation? Is it REALLY God's plan for us to bring life into the world only to destroy it? If you think the destruction of lives isn't occuring in my family's situation you're seriously in denial.

Second, everyone on here is touting the possibilities i.e. the child might find the cure for AIDS, grow up to be a future president etc... However let's be clear that there also exists the same possibilities for the children to grow up to be the next serial killer. I understand that my family is in the position to make a difference in my nephews lives and believe me we try. But there never seems to be a break from the madness. I try everything I can do to bring happiness into their lives whether it be a hug, some praise, buying them lunch, giving them dollars here and there and being there for my sister as much as possible.

As for the plan of action in dealing with this maniac. I know all the options as far as restraining orders and all that but the fact remains that my sister has to be the one to make that move and she has been fearful to do it for fear of someone in my family, her or her kids being seriously injured or worse at his hands. The police have been called to deal with this maniac so many times it would make your head spin. Nothing ever happens to him. Just 2 weekends ago I was standing outside my mom's in the front yard talking to my sister right before I was going to take her to work. We saw the cops go past and down on of the culdesacs. Then we saw the father of my sisters kids (I'll refer to him as maniac from now on) pulling into their driveway and the cops came from the culdesac and approached him and put handcuffs on him. My sister went to find out what was going on. Turns out that he broke into a Van that belonged to the neighbors because the Van was parked directly across the street from his house and he was convinced that there was a surveillance camera inside.

So when the cops asked him about it he started going off and saying stuff like "just kill me now and get it over with, I want to die anyway". When he said this the cops stated that maybe they should take him in for evaluation and he replied "great, take me in and give me more drugs". The cops heard him say "more drugs" as in he's already on them, and that raised no alarms on their end. By the time this whole thing was done, everyone was laughing (the cops and maniac) and he was shaking their hands!!! WHAT THE FUCK?! The cops knew that he broke into that van, they heard him say "more drugs" and yet the STILL let his ass go!

Base fact of the matter is that the cops aren't there to serve and protect us. They have been called so many damn times and they never do anything about it. Even when he beat the crap out of my uncle who is slow, the cops didn't do jack shit because he claimed that my uncle pulled a knife on him when the fact is that he threatened my uncle and came at him so he grabbed a knife to defend himself. This maniac is 6'2" and is a black belt in Karate. He is strong as a motherfucker and will hurt you if given the chance. This maniac is also a smooth talker and will talk the uniform off a cop without them even knowing it. You have no idea how many times he's beat my sister, made threats against her and my family, broke into our house and all kinds of shit and EACH AND EVERY MOTHERFUCKING TIME HE TALKS HIS WAY OUT OF IT AND THE COPS DON'T DO SHIT!

This is the situation and I refuse to believe that God would look down on my sister for preventing it in the first place.

SupaFunkyOrgangrinderSexy said:

If you look at the first post I made, it says things like "personally I believe.." and so on. Never did I say anyone had to do what I said, nor was what I thought right for everyone. It is simply that - my opinion, the way I feel. I'm against abortion. This thread asked for opinions, and I just gave mine, which I'm getting shit for for being unrealistic.

And I would also like to add that he wasn't always like this. He used to be a really cool guy. After she had the first kid he started changing. Getting real tripped out about having a kid, started doing drugs. Now he's totally out of control and the kids keep him tied to us.

This is to anyone who is gonna start up some shit about this being my sisters fault.

CarrieLee said:

I never shit on anyone in this thread. I gave my opinion, which is what this thread is about. Your opinion.

BattierBeMyDaddy said:

Yes and if given the chance, you and people who share your one sided blindness to the issue will jump at the chance to take away this choice i.e. reversal of Roe Vs Wade.

SupaFunkyOrgangrinderSexy said:

Suddenly, I'm blind, simply because I believe in something you don't. Thanks a lot. That's all you get for sharing your opinion at the org. Someone to come along, call you close-minded, unrealistic, and wrong.

BattierBeMyDaddy said:

But the thing is Battier, leaving Roe v. Wade alone allows for women to make the personal choice. The women who don't want an abortion are free to have their babies. The women who do want an abortion are free to terminate their pregnancies. Reversing Roe v. Wade takes away that choice. The weighing of morals and the ability to make the choice to take responsiblity. And until there is a concensus in the US on this issue, the choice needs to be available.

BattierBeMyDaddy said:

It is close minded individuals who approach this issue with one-sided blindness that fight for the right to choose to be taken away. If it came down to a vote would you cast your vote in favor of making abortion illegal? I'm sure the answer is yes. And this is why I would consider you and many others who share your "opinion" as close minded because it's not your position to tell someone what they have to do with their body.

I totally advocate RU486. Taking care of pregnancy in the first couple days is really the best way to handle unwanted pregnancies IMO.
[This message was edited Wed Sep 25 12:32:34 PDT 2002 by SupaFunkyOrgangrinderSexy]

AaronForever said:

I have no more opinions to give today. I'm wrong, young-minded, close-minded, an idiot conservative, and unrealistic. Perhaps another day we can debate, Aaron.

BattierBeMyDaddy said:

S'ok. I was at your age too