This is eerily in sync with the nightmare I had yesterday.

Supa I'm sorry for the situation that your sister and your family find themselves in. I'm sorry for the abuse that she has endured and the children have endured, and apparently your sister continues to endure the abuse. There are steps that can be taken however to end this situation. First, your sister needs to keep a journal of every incident. Or someone in your family needs to. Write down every incident, the time, and date. Keep this journal in as great of detail as can be managed. Secondly your sister needs to petition the court for a restraining order and she needs to ensure that it is kept up. When the time runs out, she needs to make sure to renew it if the threat still remains. Thirdly when he shows up, someone in the family needs to phone the police and make sure that the restraining order is enforced by the police.

Regarding your nieces and nephews. The abuse they've endured is terrible, however you have it in your power to help them to overcome the trauma from the abuse and to grow up to be loving individuals. In your post you stated that "God even knows what problems we (my family / society) will have to face as these boys grow into men." Actually your family will not have to face any problems if you and your family give these children love and are ensuring that you give them all the encouragement and support they need to survive the situation they are in. You are saying that it is not God's plan, but how can anyone state with certainty what is or is not God's plan. To let you in on something about myself, I faced abuse as a child. I also watched my mother be beat by my father. I moved in with another family that was just as abusive towards me. To your way of thinking, it would have been best that my mother aborted me. If that had happened, my two beautiful sons would not be here. And eventually their own children would likely not have existed. I would like to believe that I am a good person, regardless of what was done to me growing up. I would like to believe that I help those that I can and that I support those that need someone to listen and to root for them when the going gets tough. I would like to believe that I have made a difference in someone's life for the better so that what I experienced growing up did happen for a reason, because it showed me the strength that I myself contained and it taught me how to love even those that would harm me.

Supa, it's a sad situation that your sister finds herself in, but it is not the childrens faults. They are a product of that situation, but they can become even greater than anyone imagined. Many individuals that have been abused do go on to make a difference in other people's lives. They've lived the pain, they've seen the seedier side to life, and they tend to want to ensure that no one else ever experiences it (this is IF they can get past their own pain and heartache first and sometimes that requires having someone to give them support and love no matter what they do, unconditional love). Sometimes they are sure that they are going to be kicked no matter what they do, and so they will do things to make sure that they aren't proved wrong so that they can say "I knew it". What they require then is a friend to be there for them (or a family member who cares enough to be able to roll with the punches) and not be pushed away like they tend to do. You can continue to view your nephews as victims and as being not a part of God's plan, or you can look at them as survivors and marvel at the strength they've shown to survive the abuse that they've survived already, and realize that perhaps they have an even bigger part of God's plan than you can even imagine. Either way, don't sell them short and don't sell the love your family has short either. Love can heal all wounds, sometimes though the wounds may heal more slowly and patient love is required.
[This message was edited Tue Sep 24 18:39:57 PDT 2002 by InfinitiesHeaven]

SupaFunkyOrgangrinderSexy said:

Unreasonable, ay?

Even if you do take precaution, and wind up pregnant, you were still the one out having sex in the first place, thus, it's still your responsibility.

BattierBeMyDaddy said:

Yes, you have the rsponsibilty, but dont you believe you should have the choice?

BattierBeMyDaddy said:

Yes, you have the rsponsibilty, but dont you believe you should have the choice?

bkw said:

With choices, you have to think of the possible outcomes your actions can make. And then realize your responsibilities, and what you're willing to deal with. I should say, if you're not up for children, you ought not be out having sex.

BattierBeMyDaddy said:

i love being gay. no unexpected babies for me!

BattierBeMyDaddy said:

That is patently ridiculous. This is not cloud cuckoo land but the real world.

People will always have sex and it will on most occaissions be for pleasure. People are not perfect and mistakes are made.

.
[This message was edited Tue Sep 24 18:52:03 PDT 2002 by bkw]

AaronForever said:

I'm glad you're gay, too. You have good taste in men, and have pointed out some of the org's finest

I agree with Battier on this. The choice begins when you make the choice to have sex or not. If you choose to have sex, then you have to be prepared to face the possible outcome (pregnancy, stds, etc). If you choose to have sex, then you also have to be prepared for the so called "accident" (broken condems etc).

Having said that, I do believe that there are certain situations in which a woman should be able to choose (if her life is threatened by the pregnancy, if the pregnancy was due to rape, incest etc). For myself, I could never choose the abortion route and I have had to face that choice. I have a serious illness that can take my life at anytime and pregnancy just makes it that much more life threatening. My mother died at 29 (5 months after giving birth to my younger sister). Her mother died (my grandmother) at 30, giving birth to my mother. Each time I've been pregnant (I've miscarried several times) the first thing a doctor says to me is that I don't have to feel obligated to have the baby, that abortion is a perfectly reasonable option for me in my situation. My answer has always been, "Having my baby is not an obligation, it's a responsibility that I will face with all the love that I can possibly give."

I can't imagine my life without my two sons. They are my world. I would have gladly have given my life in order to have given them life. With God's grace however, that wasn't necessary. The choice begins when one chooses to have sex.

We have become such a microwave society. We have drivethru wedding chapels, drivethru funerals, fast food, and now when we are faced with the consequences of our actions (by choosing to have sex and the consequence of being pregnant) we opt for the fast and easy way out (or a lot of people do). There is a study done on teens who have abortions, can't think of the statistic but it stated that if a teen has one abortion, chances are she will have another. It's easy to go in and have an abortion and it's even easier to have sex without being responsible when there is no responsibility to be faced.

HRHthesmellofJazmin said:

patience, trust and unconditional love i think might help. sorry for your friend, HRH
[This message was edited Tue Sep 24 19:30:45 PDT 2002 by XxAxX]

InfinitiesHeaven said:

Finally!

BattierBeMyDaddy said:

What about a woman who is raped and gets pregnant or a woman who doesn't want a child and is forced to have it.You have the chance of another Toogood childbeating mother raising another monster to turn loose on society.

4LOVE said:

Rape is a different story, of course. I'm not sure about what to do in that situation. There's always adoption, which I'm sure I'll get drilled for again for saying my SkeltonKee.

As for the woman who doesn't want children, I think I already covered that when I said, if you're not ready for children, don't be fuckin'!

BattierBeMyDaddy said:

There are far more children that people to adopt them so we know that doesn't work.As for people to stop having sex,the drive was made to overcome our control.It's the way we are meant to reproduce and survive.That same drive is in all animals.It won't hit everyone but it will hit most and they will have children whether they want them or not.In an overpopulated world you would think things would slow down.But such is not the case.

4LOVE said:

Give it awhile. Eventually, the earth will reach carrying capacity for humans, and they'll die off in the thousands, millions. The earth has a way of taking care of these things.

BattierBeMyDaddy said:

So true.That's what war is for.Maybe that is why Bush is president.For population control

I cant get past the fact if a kid is 6 or so months alive it can be legally killed, but once its been alive for 9 months or longer, its considered murder. Several months seperate a woman from exercising her individual rights to being a heinous murderer. That has always bothered me.

When I was attending Catholic school I was always pro life because I was taught to be. When I left the church I became pro-choice for reasons Im still unclear of, maybe it was the trendy thing to be when youre in college.

Anyhow, Im in my late 20s now, ditched all the propaganda from the church I was raised on, and thinking for myself these days I honestly deep down dont agree with abortion.

We don't have a "choice" over everything in our lives, including pregnancy. I can choose to do drugs, and mess my life up, and all Im really hurting is myself, but its my choice. When a woman chooses to have an abortion, shes making decisions for two parties, not just one. Its one thing for a parent to decide what cereal their kid can eat, and another to decide whether they can live or die.

The biggest group of people, to my knowledge, seeking abortions are those who irresponsibly had unprotected sex and dont want to be bothered with the inconvenience of raising a child. The majority isnt rape victims, leaky condomns, and other such instances.

If it comes between someones life and inconveniencing another, life wins hands down for me.

4LOVE said:

War, and of course we'll run out of resources for the population, so we'll die off until there's an even distribution again.

I do like George Bush...

Sell it to a lesbian couple.

BattierBeMyDaddy said:

Is it only unborn American children that you want to protect?

Tom said:

You should do some informed research, not just listen to religious institutions. The Alan Guttmacher Institute has some good, accurate information. Medical statistics show that over 90% of abortions are performed within the first trimester of pregnancy. Research also shows that most couples were using a method of contraception. Also, the huge majority of women who get abortions never have another one. Finally, there are only 2 places in the U.S. that perform later-term abortions, and those are almost always done in cases where the fetus would be born with painful, hideously deformed physical problems and would most likely die immediately upon birth.

Most people are terribly uninformed when it comes to abortion and listen to very biased, loud, hyper-emotional, illogical 'information' from so-called Right to Life.

I don't believe in murder. So I would definately keep the baby in a heartbeat. No to adoption.

I would give the baby lots of love. Lots of hugs and kisses 2

If you interfere with life, causing it to be dead when it would otherwise be alive, I'd consider it murder no matter when the abortion is performed. So, no, I don't believe someone should have the choice to murder. ...and that's all I got to say about that. Selah.

Jasziah said:

So I assume you believe that life begins at conception, so you don't use condoms or birth control because that would also be preventing a potential 'life' from occurring...?

Abortion is a safe, legal medical procedure. The decision whether or not to have one is between a woman and her doctor.

I'll take care of my body, you take care of yours. End of story...

BattierBeMyDaddy said:

And if the measure taken fails, then it IS responsible to still prevent the pregnancy you know you aren't ready for. You probably grew up in a religious household that only gives you a very skewed view of how life really is. If someone knows they aren't responsible enough to take care of a child and the method of protection fails, it's still a responsible move for someone to prevent the birth. You may not agree with it but it is being responsible nonetheless.

AnotherLoverHolenYoHead said:

BattierBeMyDaddy said:

Again, totally unrealistic. You know that you may get in a car accident so you shouldn't drive. It's the same damn argument. It's not realistic to expect people who don't want kids to refrain from sex. What about a married couple who both do not want kids? Are you going to tell them not to have sex? Young thinking.