BattierBeMyDaddy and I were having a discussion about this topic... neither of us believe that there are any spiritual origins to these experiences. BBMD also found this information:

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Life after death? Scientists say those near-death and out-of-body experiences are just a quirk of our brains misfiring.

We've all heard the stories, which can alternate between hauntingly spooky and spiritually inspiring. Someone dies, often on an operating table or after suffering cardiac arrest. That person is later resuscitated and tells a tale of seeing a light and being drawn to it or of having a feeling of floating above the room and looking down on the people in it. Is it life after death or is it a brain's neurons gone haywire under stress?

Scientists from University Hospitals of Geneva and Lausanne in Switzerland point to the angular gyrus--a part of the human brain that is thought to play an important role in sensory information we receive about our own bodies, including vision and touch. The Swiss researchers speculate that when it misfires, we have visions of floating outside of ourselves.

Carefully steering away from all issues of the soul and spirituality, the researchers published their findings in the journal Nature. They mapped the brain activity of a 43-year old woman who had been experiencing seizures for 11 years, reports The Associated Press. By implanting electrodes in the right temporal lobe, which includes the angular gyrus structure, they could stimulate portions of her brain. When they did this, the patient said she saw herself "lying in bed, from above, but I only see my legs and lower trunk." She also described herself as "floating" near the ceiling, notes AP.

But even the lead researcher, neurologist Dr. Olaf Blanke, admitted this much: "We do not fully understand the neurological mechanism that causes OBEs [out-of-body experiences]." He conceded that the brain-mapping results do not entirely explain out-of-body and near-death experiences, a point with which other neurologists agree. Dr. Bruce Greyson of the University of Virginia told AP that the Swiss experiment does not prove that all out-of-body experiences are illusions. Why? It's possible that such events occur in different ways--ways science doesn't understand yet.

Some scientists think these experiences are explained by the lack of oxygen in dying brain cells or the endorphins released by the brain in an attempt to block pain. Whatever it is, there have been thousands of such out-of-body experiences, and very few of them have ever been clinically analyzed. Writing in the medical journal Lancet last December, a group of researchers in The Netherlands recounted how they interviewed 344 cardiac patients who were resuscitated from clinical death. Twelve percent reported seeing a light or spoke to the dead.

Dr. Sam Parnia, a physician at Southampton General Hospital in England, was puzzled by heart attack victims who had near-death experiences and reported having lucid thoughts after being declared dead. Is this proof of a human soul? His team interviewed 63 heart attack patients--all of whom had been declared dead but were later revived. Most--56--had no memory of the time they were unconscious. Seven reported memories, four of whom reported lucid memories of thinking, reasoning, moving about, and communicating with others. They also recalled feelings of peace, joy, and harmony. Time sped up, senses were heightened, and they lost awareness of their bodies. One reported a close encounter with a mystical being. "Here you have a severe insult to the brain but perfect memory," declared Parnia. His research was published over a year ago in the journal Resuscitation.

So are these out-of-body experiences just the brain misfiring under stress? Or are they a precursor to life after death?

--Cathryn Conroy

http://channels.netscape.com/ns/news/

Yes, I believe in it. My grandfather experienced it twice.

I believe it happens...my mother experienced it...but, from where it comes is my question...I've heard the "brain mis-firing" theory before and it makes sense. However, why would our brains (meaning human brains belonging to people from all walks of life and cultures on this planet) have the same 'insert diety here:___' type experience? My thinking is that organically/biologically these images/feelings would not be present. Meaning, in a vacuum (no...not a hoover or eureka) where no mention of a god or or other diety exists, what would a person see and feel in a near-death experience?
Just some thoughts...
[This message was edited Mon Sep 23 14:33:53 PDT 2002 by applekisses]

Hell, I still believe in Santa Claus.

Well, you already said how I feel. So yeah, I don't believe a bit of it!

2the9s said:

Santa Claus doesn't believe in you.

Absolutely. Not only am I generally nearly dead at the end of the week, but by the end of the weekend, I usually run out of beautiful bods I wanna sex up.
[This message was edited Mon Sep 23 14:37:18 PDT 2002 by Aerogram]

Hardwired for God

Temporal-lobe-epilepsy (TLE) patients, who suffer from seizures of the brain's frontal lobe, frequently experience intense mystical episodes. Neurologists at the University of California in San Diego have noticed that about 25% of patients with TLE become obsessed with religion.

Researchers believe that the seizures experienced by TLE patients may affect a pathway that connects two areas of the brain: one that takes in sensory information, and another that gives that information emotional context. This could explain why these patients often find exaggerated significance in every small thing that occurs. To test their theory, the scientists hooked up both TLE patients and healthy controls to electrical monitors capable of detecting activity in the brain's temporal lobes. Then, they showed both groups neutral words, sexually evocative words, curses, and religious words.

In healthy volunteers, even the religiously devout, there was no increase in brain activity in response to neutral or religious words. The curses and the sexual words, however, did set off a reaction in their temporal lobes. When TLE patients were given the test, their brains did not react to either the curses or sexual words, but did respond to the religious words.

It seems that the temporal lobes of human beings are naturally hardwired for religious experience, and an individual's potential for religiousity may depend on the genetic predisposition or the health of that area of their brain. What we see in some epileptics is probably a disease-induced exaggeration of a capacity that we may all have to a greater or lesser degree.

A belief in God is found in all societies worldwide and throughout history. Some scientists believe that this capacity may be designed into the brain's circuitry through evolution to facilitate altruism and cooperation between individuals, and bring order and stability to society. Based on information in: Skeptic, Vol 5 #4, 1997; Psychology Today, Mar/Apr 1998

Excerpted from Spectrum Magazine

IceNine said:

Ah jeez, I thought it said scrotum magazine.

it's been said that the angular gyrus, the part of the brain that percieves thangs, simply gives one a complete
readout (vision) of the body when it thinks it needs
to be overhauled...
let me be your ANGULAR GYRUS...
sounds sexy huh???
oh, damn Mr. Nine.
i just read your begining post, i should have known
you'ld have covered that already.
[This message was edited Mon Sep 23 14:43:58 PDT 2002 by 00769BAD]

Yes, I do believe in both.

my cousin had a near death experience, and my sister had an out of body experience!

IceNine said:

agree. i've always thought it was the same as people suffocating... not enough oxygen or whatever to the brain makes you hallucinate, see bright lights, etc.

AaronForever said:

Exactly. In fact there are plenty of drugs (both illegal and legal) that trick your brain into seeing/feeling/experiencing the exact same thing.
In my own experiences with meditation I've felt the sensation of floating well above my physical body. Do I think that means my "soul" left my body and was floating around somewhere? No. It means my senses went a little bit haywire for an extended period of time. That's all.

I have a distant memory of an experiment planned to test whether people really could "leave their bodies". It was supposed to be set up in a hospital, and the idea was to position a set of symbols so that they could only be seen from a high level, near the ceiling. Thus, the person who claimed to have had such an experience should have been able to identify these weird symbols. I don't know if any results were ever published.

Out of body exoeriences all brain chemistry?..didnt anyone see Ghost?

I dunno about all that shit but sometimes I wonder about what could have happened.

4 example I was supposed 2 take the bus to the mals with a few friends from college here and we missed the bus. I asked them if they were gonna wait around another half hour 4 the next bus and they all said "yes." I didnt want 2 wait so I walked back 2 the dorm.

Then I heard when they finally got a bus a man got off the bus halfway through and then shot at them from outside the bus. The window shattered but it didn't break. No1 was hurt but they were scared as shit.

Me? I was glad I didn't go. That could have been me next 2 the window.

Nep2nes said:

So close but yet so far

CarrieMpls said:

you say tomato...

i use to do drugs.
i would stay up til i had mini comas.
i knew other people that did different drugs.
the funny thing about it is, if they heard that the 'dope'
killed, or nearly killed someone, they would run to the
asshole that was sellin it...

Time magazine has an article about this in the upcoming issue, check Time.com: http://www.time.com/time/...78,00.html

(Note-you need to cut and paste the link above)

Nep2nes said:

(if only we had a bus emoticon)

I have to believe in, as I did experience some things similar twice. And I have experienced, besides these 2 times, other things making me clear, there'r things we will can not explain or proof as we want, because it is simple higher power. I accept this reality and wont research for more, I do trust in that what comes to me - good and bad things. There's a plan. Life and death are inmaginable big for do can capture it like that, rational. We are sooo little .'s in that beautiful Universe, what do we question things we can't catch with our brains and limited souls? We are so full of , we should clean our channels to get a some of the truth.
[This message was edited Tue Sep 24 4:45:57 PDT 2002 by Arcamar]

I like to think there is a predetermined reality which allows the dying mind a time for transition.


Our energy goes some where.

I am going to a very black place where cluster of lights reflect ideas. One of those clusters will b waiting for me.

YES..near death and out of body experiences is very real..and i believe in it because i have experienced it twice in my life...there is absoulutely NO scientific explanation for that. We are spirits (energy) in a physical body, it is as simple as that.

AbucahX said:

yes

Yup, had one...