My son just entered Pre-K and we recently attended the parent-teacher night at his school. One of the things they asked us was to let them know which children could not observe Halloween, so they could attend a different party instead (Harvest Feast or something like that).

I ask all you non-observers...what's wrong with little kids playing dress-up and knocking on doors for candy? I did it when I was little, and I assure you that I do not worship Satan. I realize it was a Pagan ritual initially, but over the years it's turned into nothing more than a glorified reason for Hershey's and dentists to get richer.

Seriosuly though...does any intelligent person out there TRULY believe that Halloween is the devil's holiday?

It is. It's Satan's way of rotting your teeth, to make those Satanic dentists rich. You said it yourself.

Regardless what we may or may not believe about its origins; for kids today it's not nearly as safe as it used to be to go trick or treating. We came up in a different era. If I had kids I wouldn't allow them to go. For various reasons.

And that's that.

Supernova said:

ness

BattierBeMyDaddy said:

Whats wrong with those dentists?

You're an anti-dentite! (this ones for 2the9s )

bkw said:

Nothing's wrong with them. My dentist is a funny man. We speak of basketball while he examines me. He cracks jokes, and then tells me to stop moving. I can't help it, they're funny.

But I think everyone's had some of the novicaine for one reason or another, and that is definitely pure evil. And think about the evil behind why you have to have the novicaine, yes? All because of the Devil's Day. Fuck Halloween!
[This message was edited Sun Sep 22 20:56:02 PDT 2002 by BattierBeMyDaddy]

Supernova said:

You have a valid point...but that's not what I was asking about. When I lived in a rough neighborhood (my son was 2) we would drive to the rich areas and have him trick-or-treat there...and then there's the Malls, which is where most parents take their kids to go trick-or-treating nowadays (well...at least here on Long Island).

I'm asking about folks who refuse to let their kids participate in a Halloween party at school for religious (or other) reasons.

Halloween is surely a day of fun for kids and adults alike. It doesn't matter about it's origin . It's just a fun day of Partying and Costuming and Candy and Games. It's a really cool time and you get to watch all those scary movies in a Marathon and all. For me besides Christmas well Halloween is just the best Holiday there is. Charlie Brown's the Great Pumpkin will Live Forever as the best t.v. classic behind Rudolph The Red Nose Reindeer . To remain Childlike is Truly the most Wonderful Gift in the World! Mallow Mars anyone?

PurpleJedi said:

Do you really think being in a rich area is always a safer area than any other area?


When I was a kid I didn't/wouldn't want my parents taking me trick or treating. That is so uncool.

Well, I don't know let's think about this...

It's a holiday where they give the little bugger's enough sugar to cause a diabetic coma ... then the parent is stuck waiting for the supply to run out so they can get there sugar psychotic little Imp .. umm (sorry) child back

bkw said:

Seinfeld! LOL!

Not that I agree with everything on the site, but here's a Christian perspective (since you asked): http://www.khouse.org/bib...halloween/. They seem to come from the point-of-view that it celebrates pagan roots... satanic ones at that, and that it may encourage children to explore other dark areas. Personally, it's my least favorite holy?day because of the many bad people who choose this one night to do very wicked things. Pray for the children, especially for those who are missing at this time.

Natasha said:

i agree with that statement...unless Michael Jackson says it...

What I'm wondering is when this became such a serious issue in the Christian community.
When I was younger, we actually had Halloween parties in the basement of the church. The daycare was made into a Haunted House, there were prizes 4 the best costume, games, food, etc. It was a safe & fun way 2 fellowship. We weren't thinking about any Devil. We just wanted 2 make sure our costume was tight.
I only came across this idea of how "sinful" Halloween supposedly is while in the Bible Belt.
I wasn't allowed 2 hand out candy 2 kids at the apartment complex where I worked. I'd found that peculiar enough, but since then I've read all types of Letters to the Editor about how wicked and horrible the "holiday" is. One lady even suggested that it was a day of "whoremongering." I don't see anything "whoremongering" about a kid wanting 2 dress up like a Powerpuff Girl and get some free Snickers. I'd do it if I didn't look like a downright fool.
It's all in fun.
ONE

I grew up in churches, and as far as I can remember most of the churches celebrated Halloween with their own "haunted houses" which were made to be as scary as the other ones in town. One of the reasons they did this was to keep kids out of the street, and bring them into church... and keep them away from any poisonous/razor-blade candy they might get. The churches provided tons of free candy, and had all the usual Halloween games. Plus, we all tried to see if we could stay up all night long. Nowdays, most churches have a "Harvest Festival" and dress up as farmers and such. But even that gets criticized since many Christians don't think there should even be an alternative and that October 31st shouldn't be recognized at all. I can see where they're coming from, but it does seem that the more we make a big deal out of it, the more attention it is given. I loved trick-or-treating as a kid, but since then I've met a few people (including an ex-girlfriend) who were part of some very awful things every year around Halloween, so now I don't like it all. I just stay quiet about it, pray, and don't get involved.

I didn’t realise how big Halloween was until I lived in the states and just like any foreign tradition it struck me as strange. In the standard American way (and I don’t mean this as offensive) it felt like this little holyday (it was holy for the Druids - don’t forget that Good () without Evil () is just normal) had been blown out of all proportion and provided a stopgap reason to celebrate between the end of the summer and Thanksgiving. Almost without realising it had become a national institution before it was really understood. Now it is being deconstructed as Evil, like you have just realised that that is what is about – crazy.

Celebrating Halloween as a Christian is just like celebrating Christmas as an agnostic or atheist. People do it simply because it’s fun. Let the minority get their kicks from it as a true Pagan festival while everybody else dresses up and eats candy (sweets).

To continue, while I was in the US, I lived in New Mexico and the American Mexicans celebrate the Day of the Dead at this time. Kicks the arse out of Halloween in its freakiness, but it was a celebration of lives gone before. The Italians do the same thing and celebrate and mourn the lives of relatives already passed. It seems to me that the druids probably did exactly the same thing that has been twisted over the years into something quite sinister.

Explain that to you kids and let them dress up like other kids and rot their teeth all day long. Armed with the truth and a toothbrush I’m sure they will grow up as normal as the rest of us!

I've read remarks from psychologists basically saying that its ok for people to watch violent horror movies, because its normal for people to seek out temporary thrills/scares like that.

In that frame of mind, a night of "scary" things for children probabbly fills that same void. Its all good fun. Some people take the origins of it far too seriously. When are we going to give up the past and look at our current traditions and what it means to us now. Its much different.

Halloween has always been one of my favorite holidays. It would be a shame to force your kids to do some boring fall festival thing, when the rest of their friends are enjoying halloween.

PurpleJedi said:

YES...it is...the devil wants all the candy to himself...

My mother doesnt let us go trick or treating anymore. We used 2 tho'...Im 2 old now anyway.


My mother's become some sort of born again Christian and she's renounced everything from cable television (which we no longer have) and Halloween. She just doesn't like the idea of dressing up in outfits and pretending to be of the occult or something, or mocking dead spirits or disfigured people. She thinks that act is demonic.

She still carves pumpkins and stuff, but we just don't go all out trying 2 look gross or something. Plus she thinks that walking around demanding candy from people is a sign of a strange culture. She says no other country does that. She recognizes that Halloween originates from a pagan holiday (Samhein) but she doesnt think it's true 2 that holiday anyway.

Soapstone said:

The difference is that Dia Del Muerto honors the dead, however morbid it may seem (i.e., baking skull-shaped cookies) Halloween doesnt honor anything but greediness.

Natasha said:

I STILL get dressed up and actually trick-o-treat with my nephews. I'm looking foward to this year's mother load of candy. Fo'sho.

The lovemachine was never allowed to go trick-or-treating as a child due to the fact that someone robbed my candy when I was a baby and my mother had taken me out trick-or-treating for the first time.

So every year on Halloween we would hide in the house with all the lights out so we wouldn't have to hand out candy.

It was quite sad.







.
[This message was edited Mon Sep 23 7:17:34 PDT 2002 by lovemachine]

I wasn't allowed to trick or treat, because my mother was afraid of poision candy and razor blades.

I used to take my kids to the local mall to trick or treat and that was pretty fun. They didn't want to do the dress up thing, just get the candy. (Which I still had to check when I got home. Crazies work in the mall too. )

I also went to a Halloween Hay Ride, where there were not ghosts and stuff but real life scary stuff.

Drunk Drivers
Drug Users
etc.

That was really scary...

Samhain, and any other pagan practices have nothing to do with the "devil". The devil is something that was created by Christians to scare people into becoming Christian, or at least have a good reason to kill people who were pagan. Samhain has a lot more in common with Day of the Dead than any satanic ritual.

Here are some links


http://www.starcraftsob.c...hain.shtml

Samhain (Halloween)
October 31st (traditional) / November 6th (zodiacal)

Many Wiccans consider Samhain, or Halloween, to be the beginning of the New Year, and in a sense, they are right, because as the death or end of a cycle, it is also the beginning. The seeds fall to Earth from the dying plant, there to lie in wait for new life to stir within. The God passes into the invisible world, there to become the seed of his own rebirth as the Son of the Mother Goddess at Yule.

With Samhain, we are again at the ending that becomes the seeds of the new beginning. The Dark Lord reigns in the invisible world, called the Summerland, where he greets the souls that are passing out of this world, and assists the souls who are reincarnating. The veil between the worlds is thin, and contact with those from the other side may be made. We honor loved ones who have passed beyond, and we honor death and change, in the sure knowledge that the Wheel keeps turning, and all that die shall be reborn!



http://www.starcraftsob.c...lore.shtml

Samhain (Halloween) Lore
from Kathryn Campbell

To the ancient Celts, Samhain marked the end of summer and the beginning of winter, with the day after Samhain being the first day of the Celtic New Year. This was determined because the sun was at it's lowest point on the horizon as measured by the ancient standing stones of Ireland and Britain. For this reason, modern witches commonly view Samhain as the witches New Year.

The Crone aspect of the Goddess is honored at this time. Her's is the cauldron of life, death and rebirth through which we all must pass. The Crone was always held in high esteem as a woman of power whose wisdom came from age and experience.

Samhain is a time to also honor our Ancestors, the Old Ones, the Mighty Dead. The Celts believed strongly in reincarnation and that they were reborn into the same tribe. Feasts for the dead were prepared and fresh meat was always part of the sabbat feast. The Celts were predominately a herding culture who slaughtered much of their livestock before Samhain rather than attempt to feed them through the long harsh winter. Only the strongest "cattle" were spared for they were most likely to make it through the dark time to reproduce in "calfing" season. This slaughter of the livestock was the main part of the third and final harvest.

The veil between the worlds was considered to be at it's thinest at Samhain, allowing the living and the dead to pass between the worlds unobstucted. The Dark Lord was also believed to pass into the land of the dead at Samhain, guiding the souls of the beloved dead to a place of peace. On this night, the divine child of promise is concieved.

VinaBlue said:

Thanks for backing me up with some good info Vinablue. I guessed the two days had got mixed up somewhere along the way with calendar changes etc. Typical mass consumerism! Followed by mass hysteria by people who don’t know what the fuck they are talking about.

You could always send your kids trick or treating dressed as J.C. to protect them!

And here is another link

http://www.witchway.net/h.../lore.html

Samhain is popularly known today as Halloween, a contraction of the words "Hallowed Evening", and it retains much of the original form and meaning it had long ago in Celtic lands, despite the efforts of the Church to turn it into an observance of feasting and prayer for their vast pantheon of saints. The Church began calling it Michaelmas, the feast day of St. Michael, but the old Samhain holiday proved to be too potent a drawing card for one lone saint to combat. So it was renamed the Eve of All Saints, or All Hallows Eve, which precedes All Saint's Day, and is still one of the holiest days in Catholicism.
The pagan Samhain is not, and never was, associated with evil or negativity. It has always been a time to reaffirm our belief in the oneness of all spirits, and in our firm resolution that physical death is not the final act of existence. Though death is very much a part of Samhain's symbolism, this Sabbat also celebrates the triumph of life over death.

While it is true that Samhain is no more evil than any other holiday, it is also a fact that evil does exist, and pagans have always been aware of this. Our ancestors sought to protect themselves on this night by carving faces in vegetables to place near windows or at the perimeters of their circle. These were the forerunners of our present day jack-o-lanterns. These carved pumpkin faces are probably relics of the even earlier custom of placing candles in windows to guide the earth-walking spirits along their way. Today it is still a custom in Ireland to place candles in the windows on Samhain night and to leave plates of food for the visiting spirits.

There are two possible sources for the origin of the Samhain Sabbat's name. One is from the Aryan God of Death, Samana, and the other is from the Irish Gaelic word "samhraidhreadh", which literally means "the summer's end". Samhain marked the end of summer and the beginning of winter for the Celts, with the day after Samhain being the official date of the Celtic New Year. The reason the Celts chose this point in time as their new year rather than Yule, when the rest of Western pagans celebrate it, was because the sun is at its lowest point on the horizon as measured by the ancient standing stones of Britain and Ireland.

This is also a time for harmless pranks, lavish feasting, circle games, and merrymaking which can be teasingly blamed on nearby spirits (ala Loki, Abbot, Lord of Misrule etc.)

Samhain bonfires, called balefires in paganism, were once lighted on every hilltop in Britain and Ireland as soon as the sun set on October 30. The word "balefire" comes from the word "boon", which means "extra". The fires serve the purpose of containing the energy of the dead god, lighting the dark night, warding off evil, ushering in the light of the New Year, purifying the ritual space or home, and being the focus of ritual. In many parts of the British Isles these balefires are still lighted on Samhain to honor the old ways.

The idea that evil spirits walk the earth at Samhain is a misinterpretation of the pagan belief that the veil of consciousness which separates the land of the living from the land of the dead is at its thinnest on this night. This does not mean that hordes of evil entities cross this chasm. Some pagans believe this veil is made thin by the God's passing through it into the Land of the Dead, and that he will, for the sake of his people, attempt to hold back any spirits crossing into the physical plane whose intent it is to make trouble. In nearly all the Western pagan traditions, deceased ancestors and other friendly spirits are invited to join the Sabbat festivities, and be reunited with loved ones who are otherwise separated by time and dimensions of existence.

When you were a kid did you even know that it was a pagan holiday?

No, it was a holiday you looked forward to, to dress up, and most important was the candy.

I say let the children have some fun, in time they can draw their own conclusions.

Nep2nes said:

No wonder you're such a rotten person. You aren't allowed to have any fun. It all makes sense now. Nep2nes! I forgive you!!!

Nep2nes said:

oh, and uh, Christmas and Easter originate from a pagan holidays too. does she celebrate them?

sag10 said:

In Mexico and Italy it's the Day of the Dead/All Souls Day...time to reflect on those loveones you've lost and go to church...then the next day is All Saints Day...so, if you're Italian (or Mexican) and Catholic, like me...it kinda all blends in...and, of course, we celebrate Halloween too...it's still one of my fav holidays ! Most Catholics I know don't get all bent out of shape about Halloween. Then again, most Catholics I know are pro-choice and support the gay community too.
Anyway, did anyone check out the recipe I posted for a Kitty Litter Cake? Found it on a halloween recipe site.