Xagain said:

Notice how the doctor ignored what he said about his dad?

JustErin said:

That's 'cause the doctor was new at that hospital. He prolly didn't know anything about Jack's dad. Or if he did, he knew Jack had gotten all crazy.

Xagain said:

Well, ya. My take is that he knew all about Jack and his dad but also knew that Jack was looped up on painkillers so said nothing about his dad being 6 feet under.

JustErin said:

Doesn't make sense, it seems like him being loopy and drunk would make him the loss even more... after all he saw his ghost, he saw a broken coffin, he had a huge blowout at the airport about the coffin, he went all the way to australia to rescue his dad...

ufoclub said:

I dunno man. I'm usually always right in everything. Best to stick with my take on it.

Phew! All the important characters survived... So far I think all their choices of who gets picked off have been pretty sensible. It's been charcters that have played out their role and that usually didn't contribute all that much in the fist place. I thought Michail was pretty funky though, so they could have left him a bit longer (I'm assuming that he died as well from the blast, but who knows).

So now they are going to do flash forwards as well? So far we've been led to believe that it's the characters remembering things that brings about the flashbacks, but who is having these flash forwards? Desmond? Nobody? It doesn't really make any sense and breaks the narrative structure that they've spent three whole seasons building up.

I'm a bit worried that the whole Jacob thing will do the same to this show as Bob did to Twin Peaks, i.e. make it too metaphysical and strange to be any fun anymore.

Also, there are too many different groups now; the survivors, the Dharma people, the others, Naomi's crew, Penelope's crew... I think it was better back when they kept it minimalistic. And I sure hope they haven't just dropped the whole Dharma storyline now, because I still find it very intriguing. Exactly what were they doing on the island?

And oh, did anyone notice that the doctor Jack was talking too looked like a dead ringer for Pej the orger?

Xagain said:

...but it was unlikely to really be Jack's dad. It could very well have been the smoke monster (just as it, or Jacob?, appeared as Eko's brother previously).

JustErin said:

I don't think the doctor did ignore it... The doctor was making a face after that and Jack said something like "Don't look at me like that...". They were just keeping it all ambiguous so as not to give away the game too early.

retina said:

If it bothers you... just look at it as the present day scenes were the real story and the Island scenes were the flashbacks to the event that is effecting his actions today. This works just as well.



Ummm, don't you think having a killer smoke monster right at the start is pretty strange and 'out there'? Given how they played up that aspect earlier on, it's actually a bit anti-climactic in that regard.

jtfolden said:

Yeah, and Bob was there from the beginning in "Twin Peaks." But of course, I watched the home video version, and I think he may have been edited in. I can't remember.

But I never took the flashbacks as being what the characters were remembering at the time.
On alot of tv sites, they complain about the flashbacks, but I usually like them more than the island scenes.

jtfolden said:

No it doesn't.

For one thing, that would make the real flashbacks flashbacks to flasbacks. Plus, a flashback isn't a flashback unless you've established the present time, so it's a little late for that at the end of season 3, don't you think?

I'm being patient with all the mysteries on the island and even certain loose ends that they seem to have abandoned, but if they are going to start messing with the narrative structure without proper motivation then that's just sloppy screenwriting.




Of course it's out there, but there's a difference between being "out there" and making it so metaphysical that nothing makes sense anymore, hence the comparison with Twin Peaks where there where plenty of supernatural things going on which worked fine until Bob stepped in as a brand new chracter very late in the show and made it so strange that the audience stopped caring.

Xagain said:

No he wasn't. He wasn't even in the first season.



Of course they do! That's why every time they start a flashback they've previously shown the charcter who is featured in the flashback showing a pensive face, and sometimes even drifts off so much in their memories that after the flashback has ended, another character is calling their name and trying to get them to snap out of it.

retina said:

Bob was scripted from day one.....and it made that show thrilling! One of the best and scariest villains in tv-history!

retina said:

Yeah, I guess Bob coming in late would have been strange.
But I thought the "flash-forward" reveal last night when Kate stepped into view was brilliant. Absolutely brilliant. It explains why the producers were so adamant about wanting an end-date to the series, it let the viewers know that the story WAS going somewhere and that the characters weren't in Purgatory or living in the dream of autistic child or whatever, and it added alot of mysteries, especially about who else makes it off the island and who was in the casket and stuff. I thought it was one of the best reveals on the show ever.
This will be the first time I actually miss the show during it's hiatus.

retina said:

Yeah, sometimes. But I never assumed it, or felt it was that necessary to the narrative structure. Not like say, adding a narrator would be, or killing off all but 2 characters, or moving them to California where they all live in apartments in the same building or something.

So anyway.

I seriously saw Sayid walking down the street downtown today.

It took everything to contain myself from jumping his ass.

I wish I had a camera on me, this dude was his freaking twin.

Xagain said:

The flashbacks are not necessary for the narrative structure, you're right, but now they've chosen to include them in the form of memories so if you've established that and then introduce flash forwards, then that breaks the narrative structure in a bad way. Oh well, I guess I'm unusually annoyed by things like that since I'm a screenwriter myself and know what good and satisying results you can achieve if you just stick with a backbone for your story that feels motivated and works.

JustErin said:

I thought seeing how short he is would turn you off.

At least I assume he's short, considering his ethnicity.

retina said:

I think he is kinda short but still taller than me...so that will do.

JustErin said:

Aren't you supposed to be making supper for someone who's considerably shorter than you?

retina said:

Finished.

OK, you're right. Now I gotta get him bathed and ready for bed.

Thanks, dad.

JustErin said:

I'm his dad? I got you pregnant through webcam? Damn, I'm more virile than I thought.

retina said:

No, it wouldn't make the flashbacks of previous stories become flashbacks to flashbacks. If the finale is a real game changer, and there are rumors that a good portion of next season will be filmed in LA, then they may simply be moving the "current date" forward within the show. The whole show has been living several years in the past now as it is... In the grand scheme of things it's silly we have to wait 9 months to see what happened to a bunch of characters 3 years ago. lol


Either way it plays out, I thought the 'flash-foward' of last night was the saving grace of Season 3. It inject some brand new interest into my enjoyment of the show and at least, seemingly, helped to alleviate the fears that this show was going to be running on empty for the next 48 episodes. As it stands this is probably one of the top 3 season endings I've seen on a show in several years (the top two being the series finale of Six Feet Under and the Series 2 finale of Doctor Who).



It's not sloppy simply because you disagree with it. Lost NEEDS some sort of shake up to go for 3 more years. There's only so much running around in the jungle that people will watch and there's only so many traditional flashbacks they can come up with that people would give a damn about. At first it was fun tying all the bits together and kind of cute to see who new or ran into who in their past but now it's just sort of tedious in the context of all the other threads they start and abandon willy nilly.



I guess I just don't see the problem here specifically in Lost as of yet. There's a lot about The Others (and assorted related camps) that we didn't know much about until this year. I've had no allusions that some of the more supernatural elements were going to have any sort of rational explanation. Also, I think it's a positive sign that 3 years in they may not be sticking to formula.

retina said:

You don't think the surprise flash-forward worked? I agree with jtfolden; it may be the best thing I've seen on tv since the "Six Feet Under" ending.

jtfolden said:

You can't just move the current date forward without breaking the structure you've established. It's of course possible to do that, but it doesn't make any sense, it's sloppy screenwriting and I'm sure it wouldn't please the audience either.

Besides, I'm pretty sure they're not trying to turn the "island time" into the past. They're simply introducing flash forwards and as such they don't work.



It's not because I disagree with it, it's because it doesn't make any sense within the narrative structure of the show.




I don't see it as a problem yet either, I'm just worried that it might become one.



A better way of refreshing the formula would be to simply drop the flashbacks, in my opinion.

Xagain said:

No. It was an interesting gimmick and an interesting way to end the season, but if it is going to become an integrated part of the show then it won't make any sense whatsoever.

retina said:

But dropping the flashbacks really WOULD ruin the show. Surprising that you, a screenwriter, are the only one who didn't dig it.

Xagain said:

I disagree. The main purpose of the flashbacks has been to flesh out the characters. A secondary purpose has been to show how their lives intersect. Both those goals have been reached, so it wouldn't be too bad at all to drop the flashbacks entirely, especially at a point in the show where everybody is aching for more plot development.



Oh, I'm certain I'm not the only one.

jtfolden said:

I agree completely.

retina said:

Yes it does.