Oh, this is over in P&R too. I am horrified by this story. I really want to know why the mother didn't breastfeed, but I know that there are many reasons why women don't. Still, it could have saved him. Unless they were impoverished, there is no reason he had to starve to death. I have known very healthy vegan children. These people needed to do their research, or talk to their doctor about feeding their child properly.

what makes me angry it that they didn't bother to ask a nutritionist or something. they just assumed they knew what they were doing. babies bodies are different, they need a lot for nourishment. on the opposite end i've heard of grandparents from force feeding their grandkids who are only a coupla weeks old, solid fattening soul food-despite what the mother says.

HereToRockYourWorld said:

Okay, that's got to be one of the dumbest and most disingenuous arguments I've ever heard. Most American kids are fed crap, so a vegan diet can't be any worse? Now, there's a ringing endorsement!

brownsugar said:

I know! Why didn't they discuss this with their doctor? Did they even have a doctor? There are some things left out of the article, so it's hard to what else was going on in this situation.

Genesia said:

Um, I said "I'd also point out. . .", indicating that it is somewhat of a side point.

The article that you linked to does not explain the synthesis issue, only the importance of vitamin A during pregnancy. Could we get your source about the inability to synthesize certain vitamins during childhood?

That site is also specifically dedicated to promoting animal foods. You wouldn't accept a source that I produced from veganpropaganda.com, now would you?

HereToRockYourWorld said:

i just checked the wikipedia page on this foundation: The anti-vegetarian and anti-soy views of the Weston A. Price Foundation have attracted counter-views in several vegetarian and vegan magazines and communities.

interesting.

Ultimately, his death was the result of terrible neglect. It doesn't say how much he weighed at birth, but he should have weighed more than 3.5 lbs at 6 weeks. I weiged 3lbs, 14 oz. at birth, but was up to 8 lbs at 10 weeks, after living in an Indian orphanage.

I have a hard time believing that he showed no signs of poor health until right before his death. If his parents couldn't recognize how sick their baby was, that is horrifying.

HereToRockYourWorld said:

The Weston A. Price Foundation is not dedicated to promoting animal foods except insofar as they provide nutrition. As such, they advocate a diet of whole, unprocessed foods and are opposed to large-scale and factory farming.

And you're right -- I wouldn't accept a source from veganpropoganda.com -- because there is an underlying animal rights agenda involved in nearly all of them. If you don't want to eat animals for philosophical reasons, that is your right as an adult. But the bald fact of the matter is that there are certain nutrients that can only be obtained from food derived from animals (vitamins A and B12, to name just two).

Genesia said:

what about keepingkidshealthy.com (where i found the information on vegan nutrition for babies and children) - best i can tell, they're pretty mainstream.

IrresistibleB1tch said:

I went all over that site and didn't find a thing on veganism.

Genesia said:

try the link i posted.

In the UK you have regular visits by a Health visitor in your home also at your doctors and community baby clinic does this not happen in the USA?

katt said:

As a regular practice, yes, either a nurse visits you in your home or you're bringing your baby in for regular check-ups. But since they also birthed the baby at home, they may not have been seeing a doctor as needed. As others have stated the article leaves a lot out.

katt said:

you get regular visits if you have been accused of abusing the child...

IrresistibleB1tch said:

Okay. That information is from a book by Dr. Michael Klaper entitled Pregnancy, Children, and the Vegan Diet, written in 1988 -- almost 20 years ago. Think any of that advice might be just a little outdated?

Also, the amazon.com page for this out-of-print book contains an endorsement (these are usually taken from the books, themselves) from Neal Barnard, MD of the Physicians Committee for Responsible Medicine. PCRM is an branch of PETA.

This is a truly warped and twisted story. Just goes to prove fanaticism, no matter how good the cause, is almost always dangerous. These people were either very ignorant or they suffered from the delusions of their lifestyle choice to the point that like anorexics they cannot see the true body that is in front of them. If they are truly suffering from stupidity I don't know that life in prison is appropriate but tying those tubes and snipping those balls should be a requirement if they were to ever get out. How sad

CarrieMpls said:

When you first register as pregnant in the UK you get given your due date if they don’t hear from you for a while they will come knocking and wont stop and till they hear from you.

missfee said:

You get that here 2.

Genesia said:

do you think this mainstream website just posts articles without vetting them?

and i've met Dr. Barnhard - one of the nicest, most sincere people you'd ever want to meet. so his endorsement doesn't bother me in the least.

IrresistibleB1tch said:

Would they post it without vetting it? Of course, they would! That website affiliated with a public television station. I don't have any doubt whatsoever that there are people there who agree with what they put up on that site and don't see a thing wrong with using a 20-year-old source if it confirms their point of view.

Whether Dr. Barnard is a nice man is beside the point. He works for PETA. You don't think he might have a teeny, tiny political axe? And naturally, his endorsement wouldn't bother you -- you agree with him and he with you!

Genesia said:

oh, i see now where you're coming from.

FunkMistress said:

yeah, but it's not as easy to villainize weirdo vegans if you think like that, and it gives people a much needed "there, i told you so moment". whatever greases their griddles, i guess.

can we just cut and paste a few pages of any one of the dozens of other threads on veganism/vegetarianism to this thread and call it a day? they all end exactly the same way anyway.

Anx said:

deal!

IrresistibleB1tch said:

I have, no kidding, started copy/pasting my common org rants into my own little FAQ so that I don't have to re-do them every time.

But yeah, considering the level of dialog so far on this thread, I think it's safe to say that it's not going anywhere.

HereToRockYourWorld said:

i keep re-inventing the wheel!

HereToRockYourWorld said:

you should number your rants for our indexing convenience.

Anx said:

ooh! ooh! Include the fat girl rants and I think we're on to something!

I wish Akon would weigh in on this...