Anx said:

Just like me Anx! You're right.

It's a lot easier to face the idea that this guy was a ticking time bomb with mental illness, than to acknowledge that he could have been seeking help and those with the ability to do something to help him missed the signs....that would mean that someone else would have to accept some culpability and as a society, we've shown an aversion to doing that.

They are also pointing to screenplays and writings that were violent and what have you to show that he was disturbed, but by that logic, shouldn't we be fitting Quentin Tarrentino for a straight jacket as well? I'm not saying that this guy wasn't disturbed in some way, because you just don't wake up and decide to kill 32 people without some form of real or imagined provocation...but I'm thinking that there were a lot of signs that were missed, and now its easier to chalk it up to him being some kind of nut than to look at him as a normal regular college student who needed help and was overlooked or dismissed....

just my

JustErin said:

I agree with that, totally. But, I do think we as a society need to address the reasons behind the lack of respect and decency. Many times it has to do with perceptions of attractiveness.

applekisses said:

i think if schools had diversity initiatives - in other words, trainings and a safe space for ALL students to sound off on what they experience and how they are treated by each other - there would be FAR less incidents like this or columbine. but that would facilitate thinking, and we wouldn't want THAT in schools.

Anx said:

In defense of the loners with issues....

I was forced into lonerhood because that was my only safety when I was young. I am not violent by nature but I can certainly understand someone snapping, although college is certainly a little late in the game for that kind of thing. I was tortured so badly when I was young that I totally had thoughts and fantasies about killing people and of them dying. I found peace in my solitude so like you I was/am OK with being alone and a loner.

applekisses said:

I think that we are basically saying pretty much the same thing. You're focusing on one aspect of the problem and I am looking at the big picture.

But, again, to talk specifically about what you are addressing, I don't think that perceptions of attractiveness is something that actually can be changed. I have read about studies that showed that even people with absolutely no media access (or brainwashing as some like to call it), and even infants respond more to visuals that are aesthetically pleasing (symmetrical, etc) and whether we like it or not that includes humans. Also treating people based on their physical beauty can work for someone or against them. It goes both ways.

But I'm going way off topic now.

To get back on track here...I really think that if people just stopped being so cruel to each other, even when they don't agree or don't like something/someone or find something unattractive...things like determining a person's value based on their looks would be less of an issue.

SupaFunkyOrgangrinderSexy said:

i dealt with my fair share of torment and bullying when i was growing up, too...for some reason, i don't know how, but i was given some kind of inner tool kit for dealing with this crap. i don't know how i was able to process through it, other than the fact that i knew i had qualities that they could never take away from me, no matter how small they tried to make me feel. i could draw. i could write. people were always calling me creative and talented. all the people who hurt me could do was make people feel bad about themselves. i think i was very protective of my sense of self growing up, because i didn't want to become one of "them". i think other people have seen that self-preservation as threatening or insulting, not just in my experience but in general. if you don't want to be like everyone else, you must be dangerous or something.

Mental illness doesn't always stem from low self esteem and even in the cases where it does its irresponsible to conclude that these people are more likely to cause harm to others, especially on the scale that this guy did. Many many women and men suffer from self esteem issues but dont pose a threat to society.

Loners, i.e. people who can't/don't socialize will always be dangerous in our society. It's not something to be proud of, imo. And of course, it can often be a symptom of depression.

live4lust said:

Umm, it has nothing to do with loners.
Most of the organized crime is of people who socialize, yet they are dangerous to society.

I'm a loner and I'll never raise a hand on anyone. never have and never will.

live4lust said:

i think people who make broad, sweeping generalizations are dangerous to our society. lord knows they make me depressed.

Anx said:

That's simply not true. If that were really the case, this incident may not have happened. From what I have seen, most 'loners' are simply ignored and or ridiculed...not looked at as some real kind of threat to society.

Yes, people think so called 'loners' are weird, but how many times have we heard, "well, he was a loner, kept to himself, kinda weird...but I didn't think much more of it."

Anx said:

Finally I've pissed you off. Too bad.

They have to say he was a loner because that shifts the responsibility for this away from society and on to him. Saying that he was a loner, that he was socially inept is easier to digest than "Its our fault, we made him."

live4lust said:

nah. this isn't pissed off.

LleeLlee said:

Bingo!

live4lust said:

not everyone enjoys being around people...obviously in this guy's case it was a negative thing, but it doesn't have to be.

evenstar3 said:

i don't even know if "loner" was an apt tag for him. didn't he stalk a few people? i heard his roommates talking on CNN and saying he liked taking pictures of everyone. that doesn't sound loner-ish to me. sounds more obsessively loneLY.

Anx said:

wow, they had his roommates on CNN? i stopped watching the news after the first day. but yeah, i agree

evenstar3 said:

yeah. the cafeteria at my job plays CNN all day, and they were talking to his roommates while i was at lunch. they said he used to stalk girls on campus via the internet, and that he was always snapping pictures of his roommates and anyone who'd come over.

LleeLlee said:

Yup.

Exactly.

JustErin said:

i remember when i was in high school, the gothy/alternative-y/rocky-horror-y people were ALWAYS getting in trouble for the way they dressed. my mom got a call once from one of my teachers who was concerned about me because of my appearance (and my mom gave him some advice on opinions and suppositories). after columbine, many high schools banned dark clothes or t-shirts promoting certain bans. hell, when i was in high school our parents were given a list of "gang music" to look out for...which included siouxsie and the banshees, skinny puppy and ministry!

being different has ALWAYS been considered a threat, especially when you're young and different. and lleellee is right - it's a smokescreen from having to take accountability or venture beyond our precious comfort zones.

Anx said:

Interesting. That's not what I have personally seen. The kinda kids you described were singled out for sure, but more so in the sense that people made fun of them and called them 'freaks'. No one was afraid of them, they just thought they were weirdos. And those kids made fun of the typical jock types...it all went back and forth.

So, going by my experience, being different makes you more of a target or even someone who is simply ignored, not someone who is considered a threat.

But it's been a looooonnnnnggggg time since I have been in high school, so maybe things have really changed.

OMG The shooter sent in a video to NBC news right before the massacre :
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/.../?GT1=9246

This just gets more and more unbelievable.

eleven said:

wow. i wondered if there would be some kind of letter or journal or SOMEthing that would pop up. nobody does anything on this grand a level without leaving some kind of statement to call attention to their issues.

Is this "loner" thing part of some official profile of these type of crimes... or is it just media hype?

Anx said:

I have a book called The Loner's Manifesto and one of the first 'myths' it attempts to dispell is the serial killer mentality, that all loners are weirdos, dangerous or worse.

CarrieMpls said:

a mass murder seems to me like one of the most severely extroverted things a person can do.

Anx said:

for real.

reneGade20 said:

Yeah, they're actually trying to blame Grindhouse and the like on shit like this. I read his screenplay too.....and it actually wasn't as bad as I was expecting it to be. Cable TV has more violence than that screenplay. ex:Nip/Tuck. (Not trying to bad mouth Nip/Tuck, because I love the show so much , but that was the one cable tv show that really stood out)