I was visiting a friend recently, and I walked into this Christian bookstore, called "Gospeland Book Store". There was alot of Christian materials there, nothing out of the ordinary, UNTIL, I stumbled upon a whole section that had the heading abouve it "CULT AND CULT DOCTRINES". I was expecting satanism and other things like witchcraft even, because of the typical stereotypes that Christianity has on those, but to be even more surprised, I found pamphlets about the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints, Islam, Judaism, Catholicism, Freemasonry, and Jehovah's Witnesses. I was completeley sickened by it, wondering how that this kind of self righteous bigotry could be allowed to be displayed in a store in a public mall. I know people in all of those organizations, and they are not cultists. Not only that, that kind of display is completely unAmerican and against freedom. Those kind of opinions are personal opinions and should be kept out of a place of business in a public mall. I hope you will join me, and I will keep you updated.

Here is that freedom infringing company's web link.
http://www.gospeland.com/


Your friend,
Suzie
[This message was edited Sat Sep 14 6:04:29 PDT 2002 by Grace]

But... do you feel the same way about people calling Satanism and witchcraft cults?

It is all a value judgment that should not be made. All people should be free to believe what they want to believe without being stigmatized by impolite labels.

The very fact that you "expected" to find Satanism and things like that possibly means that you do not value the beliefs of others.

I think that it is absolutely as appropriate of that store to consider these religions cults as it is for others to view Satanism and other religions as cults.

I'm not saying that the store is right for having those types of materials in public view, but you have to remember some people see being in a CULT of some nature would be considered religion even if people see it as being wrong.


This is just like the man(I forgot his name) who was recuiting yuong girls to become his wives. He started his own community, had babies with all of his wives and people considered that to be a CULT, but some people thought it was all right because they allowed him to corrupt their children and made them believe it was ok for him to have all these wives.

I'm very much a Christian, but I remember watching certain programs on T.V. and going to certain churches when i was younger where all the singing was like a Christian Operyland.


I hate country music more than anything, and I used to tell God to myself all the time that if Heaven is going to be full of just these type of people (which they all seemed to have this funny self ritious, holier than though persona) that I didn't want to go!


Actually I think it's the other way around, to me, Hell would be spending eternity with certain TV evangelists, singing country gospel all day.


I've channel surfed through many of these "Christian" programs before and was just appawled at what I've seen and heard. Many of these people seem about as "spiritual" as my big toe.

I don't think Jesus is a country fan either.

Another thought on this post...

You said:

"I was completeley sickened by it, wondering how that this kind of self righteous bigotry could be allowed to be displayed in a store in a public mall."

"Those kind of opinions are personal opinions and should be kept out of a place of business in a public mall."

The fact that you "expected" to find literature about Satanism and were perfectly fine with this is indicative of hypocrisy of the highest order.

If you want to talk about freedom of religion and all that, you should not criticize ANY religion... and if you want to talk about freedom in general, the store should be allowed to display whatever literature they choose to display. Your assertion that they should not be allowed to display the literature that you do not agree with is a call for censorship and a call for a lessening of freedom.

Please think before you post and try to keep an open mind.
...
[This message was edited Fri Sep 13 11:08:25 PDT 2002 by IceNine]

IceNine said:

You forget that an open mind is hard to have! Well, for some people.

Where the f#$* is everyone?

Moral of the story:

Don't expect to find unbiased enlightenment at a christian bookstore.

There's a christian bookstore near where I live called "The White Wing", the inventory is oozing with racist undertones.

I am so completely sick of people pushing ignorance, intolerance and hate in the name of God.

Tom said:

So lets push it in the name of Calvin Klein...

SkletonKee said:

lol

http://www.webster.com sez a cult is:


1 : formal religious veneration : WORSHIP
2 : a system of religious beliefs and ritual; also : its body of adherents
3 : a religion regarded as unorthodox or spurious; also : its body of adherents
4 : a system for the cure of disease based on dogma set forth by its promulgator
5 a : great devotion to a person, idea, object, movement, or work (as a film or book); especially : such devotion regarded as a literary or intellectual fad b : a usually small group of people characterized by such devotion

Are you criticizing their definitions?

Of course Christians don't believe in Allah, and since they believe the Messiah has already come, they can't be Jews.

Freemasonry is something else altogether; you should read up on it. It's easy to understand why it's considered a cult.

The LDS are like an offshoot of Christianity, but Christianity is basically an offshoot of Judaism, which is (almost literally) the half-brother religion to the Muslims.

Also, not everyone like that is self-righteous. The point is that if you believe that anybody with a different belief is going to Hell, you should want to help them. That's from the Bible. The Koran says to just kill the infidels. Should we respect that, as infidels?

IceNine said:

I think you should Ice. Without room for criticism there is not enough freedom of speech.


Should they be allowed to display Al Qaida books and tapes on how to plan a terrorists attack? Or religiously "inspired" war propaganda in general?


Yes, I agree with that observation. But "freedom" is always limited in some form. The question is where the limts should be. In this case I don't think limits are crossed by this store. However if the book is full of hatred and possible incenmtives to violence against people of these religions it calls "cults" there is a serious problem in keeping it public..

Anyhow, no Ice, I do not view any form of religion as a cult. I was just expecting to see satanist and witchcraft pamphlets there because that is the stereotype that most Christian stores and people have. I believe in free expression, but not in public. I believe that peoples personal beliefs are just what it says- PERSONAL. If there is a store that sells items only pertaining to the religion itself, that is fine. But, to have such a business, and smear other religions and peoples, simply because they think differently, IN A PLACE OF LEGAL BUSINESS, is another story. Get with it, folks, because they are trying to pull the wool over your eyes.


Ciao,
Grace

Would it have been okay if books on satanism and witchcraft, or wicca books even, had been in the area labeled "CULT AND CULT DOCTRINES"?

in the bookstore for muslims that i used to go to, there were books on christianity, and other religions everywhere without being labeled. just ask the clerk which book u want a topic on and they will find it. meanwhile, try to get some candy which makes a HUGE line.

Grace, I agree. This company has got major issues as do alot of companies. They should at least place a disclosure stating that "the views expressed do not necessarily represent the views of Gospeland Bookstore". I believe that they are in violation of the "equal rights in corporations act" in some states.

Good topic, Grace, I am with you 100%
[This message was edited Wed Sep 18 8:54:20 PDT 2002 by JDODSON]

AzureStar said:

No, it is not ok for a registered business to label anyones belief structure in a way that hints of slander in a place where the public can view the materials. It is illegal, at least in some states.
[This message was edited Wed Sep 18 8:58:00 PDT 2002 by JDODSON]

Grace said:

You believe in free expression, but not in public??? That's screwy! You are forgetting that you are dealing with a Christian bookstore (and from the sound of it, one that caters to a fundamentalist base). If you say they should only sell things "pertaining to the religion" then you defeat your own arguement, since most fundamentalists believe that saving people from these "cults" is their duty as Christians.

Put another way, if you went into a Muslim fundamentalist bookstore, wouldn't you expect to find materials slandering all the "infidels"? This is what you get when you go to a store that caters to one group. Should Gay bookstores not be allowed to exist, since they may contain material that others find offensive? Should feminist bookstores be outlawed, since they may contain books that attack men? Should Barnes and Noble not be allowed to carry "Mein Kampf" since it was written by Hitler?

If you start saying what ideas people can express, then you are quickly leading the way to a totalitarian system. Freedom of expression is necessary in our soceity. If you disagree with an idea that is expressed, then you have the right to disagree. The shopowner of the bookstore in question has a right to sell that material, whether you agree with it or not. You, likwise, have the right to disagree with the shopowner's views, and not shop there.

I understand much of your frustration. As a Christian, I often find myself at odds with fellow believers, who practice hatred and intolerance instead of the love that Christ taught. Still, they have the right to express their ignorant, bull-headed views, and I have the right to disagree with them.

This is a very serious issue, folks. Participation would be appreciated if you agree.
[This message was edited Wed Sep 18 8:45:56 PDT 2002 by JDODSON]

Anything that implicates hate or violence toward another group of people that is based on their religion is completely illegal if it is done by a for profit corporation that displays it in public. Branding a group a "cult" by popular definition, sparks thoughts in people's minds and if believed, can be dangerous, because then people tend to stereotype those groups and begin to look down upon them as second class citizens, which leads to hate crimes. As the quote says in your profile, Jedi,"Fear is the path to the dark side. Fear leads to anger, anger leads to hate, hate leads to suffering."

Individual rights to free speech should always be upheld. But, in this case, it is a place of public business in a shopping mall. Even if Joe Schmoe was in the mall selling this kind of propaganda, it would be illegal solicitation.


Grace's frustration is completely valid in this case, and this company should remove the display. And if they don't, it is my right to spread any kind of dissent about that company, and to discourage people from buying their products.
[This message was edited Mon Sep 16 10:09:19 PDT 2002 by JDODSON]