I think the saddest thing about not just America, but the Western world, is that we think we are the good guys, that we are defending "freedom" and "progress". And in a way, we are, but let's not kid ourselves... We got most of the money, suck up most of the resources and protect our economic interests, while the rest of the world has to make do with crumbs and watch us beat our chests as great defenders of freedom and democracy. Meanwhile, we got the nerves to complain that we have so many immigrants. What we are first and foremost doing is ensuring our financial security, and therefore, our economic domination. For instance, we seem more interested in protecting the patents of chemical manufacturers than going all out to medicate millions of African AIDS sufferers. Is that really being evolved and civilized? I doubt it.

Americans are not alone in this, but I have to say that as the only superpower left in the world, the USA has been formidably hypocritical about its real interests and blatantly self-righteous in portraying itself as the great defender of freedom. Let's get real.. The US and the West are really living in a rich gated community, and we're keeping many problems out, including issues that will cost far more lives than terrorism. I don't think we can really claim to have the moral high ground, as great as some of our institutions are.

4. conclusion: out of more than 100 replies to my original
post about 90 are personal insults from americans.

It is still shocking for me that Americans believe that their country is the only one thats free, the only one with a firm democracy with freedom of speech, religion, etc...and the most laughable of all that it´s god´s choosen country.


Some of you definitely have to travel more.

I will agree that America does have it's downfalls, but if it's so bad here, why are people so anxious to to ask for asylum or become legalized Americans?

but it was especially you 2the9s who made very clear that you did not want to debate with me, rather you would gargle with ecoli.

I am chief reporter for the politics department, I do not write the text for the page 1 girl, I couldnt care less about her. so much for your attempt to offend me here or take credibility away.

soulpower said:

I stand by that. Not out of any aversion to debate (except with you) but out of a deep love for the flavor of e.coli.

one point for you for your sense of humor.

soulpower said:

I tell you what sp. Assign me to write an article. I have no background in journalism at all, but I will write the kind of article that Bild publishes while taking a dump.

Hello, page 3 was a reference to the Sun...and I thought we Americans were ignorant of other cultures...

1. I have heard of sarcasm and employ it very frequently.

Good. Then give me the right to do just that.

2. "People like me" are not pissed off about anything. I am pretty certain that you have no idea what "people like me" think about any of this. I am a member of the Libertarian Party and if you had even the slightest clue of the Libertarian platform, you would surely understand that I do not think that America is perfect.

I know you are a member of that party. if you dont remember, we both have discussed it a while ago. I also know that you dont think that america is perfect. the "people like you" was refering to your statement on this thread. I admit, I was generalizing too much and I apologize.

3. You obviously do not have a clue about anything that I have ever posted about American politics, as I criticize our politics constantly and function in subversive mode most of the time.

I always read your political threads. however, you do believe in death penalty, I remember we were debating that. death penalty is something that I consider not suitable for a country which calls itself civilized. your opinion on it is contradicting all the smart attitudes you have on other important things.and that surprises me.


4. Yes, I did start a thread about our president recently. Have you ever heard of irony or sarcasm? I don't think that you are very good at detecting it.

thats exactly why I have pointed that out. I think you misunderstood.


5. If you are really a good journalist, which seems very doubtful from your sweeping generalizations and stereotyping, you should avoid making value judgments and saying things such as "people like you" when referring to someone that you have not interacted with, nor have you done any reasearch on to ascertain what they might actually believe.

there's no point of insulting me again. I am one of the most respected journalists in my country. I do title stories and I even have interviewed three of your presidents. I have one five awards, including the highest german one. however, above I have already apologized for the "people like you" statement. it was wrong, and its not my style. but I have a right to form an opinion about you, since you post quite a lot and I read it almost all. however, I have always considered you a balanced poster although sometimes I dont agree with what you say. but thats part of the game, we cannot always agree.


6. I don't believe that you were trying to be sarcastic in your profile either. This post was clearly meant to be inflammatory. You more than likely hoped to reinforce your views of Americans as feaux-patriotic cowboys who react with violence and anger at the first sign of an insult to their country or beliefs. The techniques that you are employing are EXACTLY the same techniques that are used by sensationalist American television talk shows such as Jerry Springer. Your comments were not meant to initiate a serious discussion of issues, but were rather meant to incite base reactions from American citizens in order to perpetuate and reinforce your views of Americans. I have used this technique many times, so I know exactly how it is done.

In Saudi Arabia 100% of women cannot vote or even drive a car. Now that's shocking.

I will agree that America does have it's downfalls, but if it's so bad here, why are people so anxious to to ask for asylum or become legalized Americans?

soulpower said:

Oh? Where are the 90% exactly? I haven't read too many "personal insults" and I certainly hope I'm not lumped in with the 90%...

Are you talking about a different thread or this one? If it's another, I'll take your word for it and stand corrected.

Soulpower:

I never said that I had anything against you and I don't. I was simply saying that I thought that you meant this topic to be provokative in a certain way... I think that you really are an intelligent guy and I can appreciate what you are trying to accomplish, but I think that it could be done better by posting a dialog rather than blank stats.

I agree with the idea of posting things about America and trying to wake the masses up to the problems.

P.S. I just looked at your Profile soulpower. Please don't tell me you write for the Bild-Zeitung!

If that's anything like the Kronen-Zeitung in Austria -- and from the link I think it is: http://www.bild.t-online.de -- then that shit is a rag!

In fact, we are the most powerful and influential newspaper in Europe, catering to 12 million readers daily. politicians consider it the most important source
of their infomation, and by the way, I am chief reporter
for the politics department...

...I am one of the most respected journalists in my country. I do title stories and I even have interviewed three of your presidents.

2the9s said:

[

Soulpower said:

Oh man , Soulpower, you are the best!!! This is Europe's most influential paper?! Damn, no wonder you feel superior over there! And yes, I also see why your politicians check your paper first for important information! Hey, really, they buy it for the articles!

Soulpower said:

Yes, and I recall that Playboy snagged an interview with Jimmy Carter too. My beloved Bill Clinton would have checked you guys out EVERY DAY!

Soulpower, try not to take it personally, but I have GOT to hook you up with The New York Times! Listen, we may have our problems, but at least our best newspapers have a little restraint on the front page!! Damn, you're making me feel UPTIGHT!


DUDE, you're killing me!!!
Hey, I love you, man. Share a laugh with me, okay. You've made my friggin' day!

___

soulpower said:

Fuck internships. Give me something to write. I'll have it translated into German myself.

Can you introduce me to the page three girl?

Anyways, yeah. Keep the population in mind when determining something. I'm sure if you take your figures, and come up with percentages and all that, you'll see you have small fractions represented.

nice to see you laugh max, but you have not clue what you are talking about! you take pictures from a website that has little to do with the actual newspaper but is more something what I'd call "infotainment". however, you are right, there IS indeed a page one girl on BILD. there IS what we call "society stories" such as the one you picked on boris beckers new girlfriend. but the success of BILD comes from the fact that it delivers EVERYTHING. and again, if you think of an american tabloid I would agree its trash, but WE HAVE A DIFFERENT TYPE OF APPROACH over here. problem is that none of you can actually READ whats in there. then you would find out how different it is. I do political stories, and we have the same serious approach as any other newspaper, only that we always have the info FIRST. and dont mess with the playboy--- they are not that good anymore, but in the 70s and 80s they published some of the best interviews with musicians, politicians, etc ever done. btw, just for your info, it looks like I will interview Prince in about 4 weeks, I will post you a link.

Come on, man, I was just messing with you the way you're always messing with me! A little sarcasm and teasing for you - it's a form of flattery.

are you saying you are gonna start stalking me now? I am having fun debating with you, but thats going a little to far...


Really, I found this thread to be so negative - so I thought a few pictures would lighten it up (just like the actual BILD - real stories with a little adult entertainment thrown in!).


you are surprising me, brother max... my thread only included numbers, no personal opinion... and you found it NEGATIVE, the numbers that reperesent your beloved country? thats something very new to hear from you.



And as for Playboy, yes there were some terrific articles (how do you even know about the 70's Playboy - very precocious of you, Soulpower).

maybe because the 70s is my decade... I dress 70s, I listen to 70s music, my car is an oldtimer from the 70s, Jimmy carter is my favorite US president... hell, I was even born in the 70s!



But just the same, it's an adult magazine that would never claim to be the most important source of information for our politicians. I am looking forward to the upcoming article that will feature Prince - wasn't it something about "how to attract or succeed with women?" Or was it about the music? I don't recall.

to be exact, nobody in germany is using the playboy as a main source for information... lol... I jus wanted to point out what great interviews they print since you sounded very negative about that mag...



___

I think making an issue out of Soulpower's paper is inappropriate and reveals one's ignorance of journalism. There are good journalists in virtually all dailies. They are no different than other professionals... Depending where you are in your career, you might have to accept a position in a place that doesn't reflect your own political or philosophical sensibilities. Besides, many articles in the yellow press are actually no different than those in more "legitimate" publications, save for the presentation. The editors will slap an exploitative title and some tacky pictures on an ordinary article written by a perfectly competent journalist.

Of course, if it's all a big joke, it doesn't matter.
[This message was edited Sat Sep 14 15:59:09 PDT 2002 by Aerogram]