Episode II isn't all that bad.. I understand the compliants but my 12 and 10 year olds LOVE it and that's really the target audience

IDEJJD said:

Agreed.

TMPletz said:

definitely. They're totally into it. Episode 1, also. Even Jar Jar Binks.

It's really hard to compare the prequils to the originals with any objectivity. I was 5 when I saw Star Wars (A New Hope). Of course I was blown away by it. 8 when I saw Empire, 11 when I saw Jedi. They're part of my youth, and I have had over 20 years to absorb them.

NDRU said:

Indeed. The reason IV ranks so high on my list is: 1) it introduced a whole new world, and 2) at the same time, it retained some sense of irreverence, humor, and humanity. That's why IV is loads better than III, a good movie in its own right, IMHO.

namepeace said:

yeah, the originals (4-6) seem much more dirty & human. The prequils are a bit more of a geeking out on the Star Wars world, which is cool, but not as good in terms of drama.

But that's what sets III apart, it's more like 4-6, and was a perfect link to them.
[Edited 2/26/07 13:38pm]

TMPletz said:

definitely. They're totally into it. Episode 1, also. Even Jar Jar Binks.

It's really hard to compare the prequils to the originals with any objectivity. I was 5 when I saw Star Wars (A New Hope). Of course I was blown away by it. 8 when I saw Empire, 11 when I saw Jedi. They're part of my youth, and I have had over 20 years to absorb them.

NDRU said:

I thought the transition of Anekin from paranoid and worried to ...well, to the dark side, was way too abrupt. It just didn't feel natural.

I think that if Episodes I, II, and III covered his downfall it would have been great. You know Episode I, show him being in training (already as a teenager), and you can flash back for backstory if needed.

Aniken as a tragic figure as portrayed in Episode III just didn't work for me.
I appreciate the movies darker tone, but You can't go from Aniken and Obiwan reallying on each other in the beginning of the movie to Obiwan letting Aniken burn at the end without some serious transitional scenes, of which Episode III is completely lacking.

It would have been really cool for Darth Maul to be in all 3 movies, and Aniken to battle Maul to become Palpatine's pupil. That would have been hawt.

Imago said:

there's no doubt that III is still hugely flawed (but enough about Haydn Christiansen), if better than I & II.

You're absolutely right that his ultimate conversion to the dark side is too abrupt, though there were hints of it--when he killed all the people who let his mother die, for example--and he had a very tragic upbringing. But when it finally happened he went from light to dark in the space of a minute

I think Lucas tried to cover way too much in the way of politics to properly tell the story everyone really wanted to see.
[Edited 2/26/07 14:18pm]

and you know, Episode II gave us everything we wanted as 12 year olds..

Boba Fett running around (well Jango, but the same look)

and a HUGE Jedi fight !!!

NDRU said:

It left me wishing that he'd do what Peter Jackson did with his movies. He released DVD versions with 45 extra minutes of footage, mostly backstory and stuff.

Lucas's Episode III could REALLY benefit from that.

Imago said:

they could have benefitted from a LOT of what Peter Jackson did But then they might not have been kids movies, which I realize they're meant to be.

But back to your point, they could still be kids movies and have the story flow better & more believably, perhaps with some additional footage.

I'd prefer he did it sooner rather than later. But you know what? I think Lucas sees the new films as superior to the old ones, and I'm not sure he thinks they need anything.

NDRU said:

NOOOOO! No more Special Editions!!!!

I thought the transition of Anekin from paranoid and worried to ...well, to the dark side, was way too abrupt. It just didn't feel natural.

I thought that too, until I saw all 3 films in succession and you get to see how it came about.

Okay, I've had a chance to see all six Star Wars movies again this month (thank you HBO!) and because I have nothing else to do except, you know, my job, I have decided to rank them in order from Best to Worst.

1) Empire Strikes Back-Yes this has Yoda. Yes this has the pretty exciting fight scenes at Hoth. Yes this has the emergence of Boba Fett as a badass mf. But what it has most is Darth at his most Darthness. He is the most menacing of all in this movie, the consummate villian who screws the rebels over every way from Sunday. Everyone on the battleship is scared crapless of him and I love the scene where a captain who has just screwed up goes to apologize and Darth 86es his ass, punctuating it with a perfectly measured "apology accepted". And this is the one with the twist ending to end all twist endings, the true paternity of Luke Skywalker.

2) Star Wars-Damn this movie is both old and timeless at the same time. Check out the hair on some of the guys working on the Death Star, completely 70's retro, but all the eseentials are here that made people clamor for more. Han is at his coolest in this one but other characters, such as Mr. Vader, are still growing into the role. I love Sir Alec Guiness in this but the fight scene between him and DV leaves much to be desired. It is by far the weakest light saber battle in the series. But still the movie works on almost all levels.

3) Return of the Jedi- The worst of the lot but still better than the prequels. Luke is more self-assured, the Jabba the Hutt scenes are classic, and then they have to go to the damn planet of Endor. What the hell George, I know muppets were popular at the time but I still refuse to believe that those damn teddy bears beat an entire imperial fleet. I used to love the ending but now I just don't know how I feel about Darth going all cuddly and Huxtable at the end. It's kind of a letdown but it couldn't have ended any other way. PS Give it up for Admiral Ackbar, one of the least appreciated characters in the series.

4) Revenge of the Sith-I don't love this movie and Hayden Christenson just acts constipated but the visuals are there. The fight scene between Anakin and Obi-Wan is badass (seriously, why was all that construction built on a planet with the average temperature just south of Hell) and they do tie the story up in the best way they could. Still, it does not hold the jock strap of any of the original trilogy.

5) Phantom Menace- Worst title in the series but only the second worst movie. The movie is laden with UNDENIABLY INAPPROPRIATE AND INACCURATE RACIAL STEREOTYPES (the all caps is for George, who denies such thing exists). Jar Jar Binks is inexcusable. The little boy Anakin is as well. But Darth Maul...give this guy his own movie. Why in the hell did they kill him off...he could have been the highlight of the prequels.

6) Attack of the Clones-Godawful. A completely transitional movie where characters stand around and go to intergalactic libraries and do, in essence, absolutely nothing. Okay so we get Boba Fett's origin but even that is lame. The movie does not come alive until the last 15 minutes and though Yoda kicking Dooku's ass was fun to watch the movie just left me cold. In an effort to set up the main story, George forgot to tell ANY story is this installment.

Agree or disagree with my rankings?
[Edited 2/22/07 10:17am]
[Edited 2/22/07 10:18am]

CosmicTalk said:

It's even more clear if you read the books (and the expanded universe books). You see the potential for evil grow and grow as time goes on.

Okay, I've had a chance to see all six Star Wars movies again this month (thank you HBO!) and because I have nothing else to do except, you know, my job, I have decided to rank them in order from Best to Worst.

1) Empire Strikes Back-Yes this has Yoda. Yes this has the pretty exciting fight scenes at Hoth. Yes this has the emergence of Boba Fett as a badass mf. But what it has most is Darth at his most Darthness. He is the most menacing of all in this movie, the consummate villian who screws the rebels over every way from Sunday. Everyone on the battleship is scared crapless of him and I love the scene where a captain who has just screwed up goes to apologize and Darth 86es his ass, punctuating it with a perfectly measured "apology accepted". And this is the one with the twist ending to end all twist endings, the true paternity of Luke Skywalker.

2) Star Wars-Damn this movie is both old and timeless at the same time. Check out the hair on some of the guys working on the Death Star, completely 70's retro, but all the eseentials are here that made people clamor for more. Han is at his coolest in this one but other characters, such as Mr. Vader, are still growing into the role. I love Sir Alec Guiness in this but the fight scene between him and DV leaves much to be desired. It is by far the weakest light saber battle in the series. But still the movie works on almost all levels.

3) Return of the Jedi- The worst of the lot but still better than the prequels. Luke is more self-assured, the Jabba the Hutt scenes are classic, and then they have to go to the damn planet of Endor. What the hell George, I know muppets were popular at the time but I still refuse to believe that those damn teddy bears beat an entire imperial fleet. I used to love the ending but now I just don't know how I feel about Darth going all cuddly and Huxtable at the end. It's kind of a letdown but it couldn't have ended any other way. PS Give it up for Admiral Ackbar, one of the least appreciated characters in the series.

4) Revenge of the Sith-I don't love this movie and Hayden Christenson just acts constipated but the visuals are there. The fight scene between Anakin and Obi-Wan is badass (seriously, why was all that construction built on a planet with the average temperature just south of Hell) and they do tie the story up in the best way they could. Still, it does not hold the jock strap of any of the original trilogy.

5) Phantom Menace- Worst title in the series but only the second worst movie. The movie is laden with UNDENIABLY INAPPROPRIATE AND INACCURATE RACIAL STEREOTYPES (the all caps is for George, who denies such thing exists). Jar Jar Binks is inexcusable. The little boy Anakin is as well. But Darth Maul...give this guy his own movie. Why in the hell did they kill him off...he could have been the highlight of the prequels.

6) Attack of the Clones-Godawful. A completely transitional movie where characters stand around and go to intergalactic libraries and do, in essence, absolutely nothing. Okay so we get Boba Fett's origin but even that is lame. The movie does not come alive until the last 15 minutes and though Yoda kicking Dooku's ass was fun to watch the movie just left me cold. In an effort to set up the main story, George forgot to tell ANY story is this installment.

Agree or disagree with my rankings?
[Edited 2/22/07 10:17am]
[Edited 2/22/07 10:18am]

TMPletz said:

Yeah, if you go here: http://www.wikipedia.org - and put in Star Wars or one of the characters, there's just about everything you want to know about the movies and the expanded universe. I, for one, wanted to find out what Luke did between the end of Empire and the beginning of Return and I found it there. Great resource for all things Star Wars-related.