TheMax said:

The only difference is that a large amount of people were killed by a few.Believe me the people who commited the crimes against Arabs here would have done the SAME thing if they had the chance.They would not have killed one and left it at that.It's just there are so few in any one area to pull of a stunt like that.The motivation is still the same.I WILL KILL YOU TO MAKE IT BETTER FOR ME AND MY PEOPLE!!Wrong is still...WRONG!Whether it is by plane or by knife.
Btw i'm glad this turned out to be a positive dissagreement between us(it shows how things SHOULD work)much respect and love to ya in spite of our differences on certain issues.

theC said:

I also appreciate thoughtful disagreement - thank you.

But I must insist that there is a huge difference between the violent, racist criminals described in the initial post and the terrorists responsible for September 11. On the other hand, there is probably less difference between Timothy McVeigh and the hijackers - he might have done the same thing if he had thought of it.

There is a spectrum of hatred. There is a spectrum of violent acts. There is a spectrum of punishment. And there will be a spectrum of attention paid by the media of these events. My point is that the September 11 terrorists, to date, define the most extreme and violent end of this spectrum. I think that most people agree, and that's why you see more world press coverage of this event for years to come.

SkletonKee said:

Actually, most of the outright killings were fairly widely reported . ABC, USA Today, etc... reported them if I remember correctly. I will admit I'd never heard about the Tulsa, OK case.
[This message was edited Wed Sep 11 14:19:01 PDT 2002 by Universaluv]

Also one more thing that would make an attack like 911 hard for Americans to pull off.We don't purposely kill ourselves to get the job done.They are willing to die for what they believe in we are willing to fight for what we believe in.Not that we are cowards we just see things differently.When we get killed it's by accident,when they die they usually know it's coming.

Universaluv said:

you dont say? hmmm...interesting...but I still feel that there needs to be a serious debate (public and private) about who *we* reacted...not just the voilent crimes but our government policies...

sorta like the discussion on this thread.

theC said:

This is an interesting point. The differences in the various crimes that we have been comparing are manifold, yet in my opinion, they differ insignificantly on the point of whether or not the perpetrator lives through the attack. Those who commit mass-murder are perhaps less likely to care about their personal safety or survival, but this may be less of a cultural difference, as you suggest, and more of an indication of the degree of hypnotic rage that such "people" feel.

In fact, the concept of a suicide mass-murderer is not as un-American as you might think. I read, in an interview with Timothy McVeigh, that once he had left the truck filled with explosives, he then walked around a nearby corner and waited for the detonation. Apparently, it didn't occur precisely when he had planned, and he wondered if it would detonate at all. In the interview, he indicated that he was preparing to go back to the truck and self-detonate the device, killing himself, to complete his deranged "mission." At that moment, it went off, and he walked away.

No, my points in this entire thread boils down to these observations:

1) To attack others based upon race, ethnicity, gender, religion, or sexual orientation is not an "american" problem as was stated by others earlier. It exists throughout the world.

2) Hate crimes perpetrated in this country are in fact reported with regularity in the media. The more heinous the crime, the greater the media coverage. Kinda obvious, isn't it? And I am amused by the way the SkeletonKee seems to quickly accept Universaluv's statement in this regard, but can't bring himself to agree with my similar assertions.

3) There are many types of hate crimes. Today, I remember a crime against humanity - the terrorist attacks of one year ago. These acts of violence were far worse than others. For me, the events of September 11 create a new benchmark of horror that people bring to bear upon others.

It's time for me to check out of this thread. Let's keep trying to learn from each other. I am trying to keep the vibe positive, too.

TheMax said:

Well, he pointed out something that you never did ..nothing personal against you...

However, I still feel that the American Media is biased in there reporting..And im not the only one who feels this way...There are reports that analyze date from *all* media sources and *they* show that the American Media is biased towards Isreal and *dont* report domestic crimes with the same ferver...I wish I knew of weblinks to refer you to but sadly I heard of these reports on a news show a couple weeks back...It didnt anaylze the content of the reports...It simply added up how many reports were made, the lenght of the reports and the placement of the reports (a lead topic for a tv news broadcast, front page or size of pictures for newspapers)...


i do appreciate the new tone of your posts...your initial responces were a bit harsh, but, whenever discussing weighted topics a lil heat is sure to steam in...

thanks for your opinions...