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Mach said: Oct 2005 ...
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I sat and talked with an old x-friend who was one of 3 young men that raped me when I was 17 He and I are both totally different people now ... both have grown and strived to make ourselves better people both with families and loving partners I wish him the best in life and was thankful I was able yrs and yrs ago to forgive his action of raping me  My God Mach.... You are a much better person then me.  In spite of the cost of living, it's still popular. |
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Sweeny79 said: Mach said: Oct 2005 ...
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I sat and talked with an old x-friend who was one of 3 young men that raped me when I was 17 He and I are both totally different people now ... both have grown and strived to make ourselves better people both with families and loving partners I wish him the best in life and was thankful I was able yrs and yrs ago to forgive his action of raping me My God Mach.... You are a much better person then me. No 
we are different none any better then the other | |
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DexMSR said: Sweeny79 said: I never said I wasn't 
But the way I see it... If you kill someone you end their life, if you rape someone you basicly end their life but they still have to get up and go to work. Maybe in my mind I see rape as worse then murder. I'm sure part of that reasoning is because I am a woman, and all women live with the fear of rape that I think it would be hard for a man to understand. and just for the hell of it... I do respect that a person can change their life around and give back to others, when they have taken so much from others....but I still couldn't call that person a hero, or as Dani said, wear them on my shirt. Just my  I have the shirt in respect to what he's done for our people. I can forgive his past if he has made a positive change, yet accept the fact that he did do a crime. This is blowing me away that you all would accept someone who actually TOOK A LIFE over someone who did not But again...this is NOT what my thread is about. So I would expect an issue such as rape to jade your thinking as women. I totally understand that. I am looking for answers to the fact of dismissing ANYONE for something they did in their past if they are doing good in the world. Period. *I* never said that, nor do I personally believe that. But I gotta tell you, for some rape victims death seems more welcoming than having to deal with being raped for the rest of their lives, so I can understand why some people feel so "jaded" about the topic. | |
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fantasyislander said: DexMSR said: The entire point of this post was to see if you all can forgive a person's demons if they have made positive change in their lives?? depends on the demons, depends on the changes. one positive change doesn't forgive rape or murder. but some demons are worse than others. a husband who cheats on his wife can be forgiven when the wife sees positive changes. friends and family members can forgive that persons demons when they see the positive changes. this is on a waaaay different caliber than a murderer or rapist. Mistakes are mistakes....who are we to judge and place weight on them? I should have just left the conversation out..and created a thread that simply said... CAN YOU FORGIVE A PERSON'S SKELETONS OR DEMONS OF HIS PAST IF HE IS MAKING POSITIVE CHANGE IN THE WORLD TODAY....SHEEEEESSSSHHH..... I aske for it....LOL The man who does not read good books has no advantage over the man who cannot read them. -- Mark Twain.
BOB JOHNSON IS PART OF THE PROBLEM!! | |
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DexMSR said: Sweeny79 said: To be 100% honest I think it would be easier for me to deal with a murderer then a rapist. Reinforcing my point then.....some of us are indeed Jaded. this is why i Love you dexter,always down for the underdog i'd sport the shirt as well and school cats on the why's and when's etc. | |
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DexMSR said:[quote] fantasyislander said: ... CAN YOU FORGIVE A PERSON'S SKELETONS OR DEMONS OF HIS PAST IF HE IS MAKING POSITIVE CHANGE IN THE WORLD TODAY....SHEEEEESSSSHHH..... I think I could. I think. | |
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DexMSR said: fantasyislander said: depends on the demons, depends on the changes. one positive change doesn't forgive rape or murder. but some demons are worse than others. a husband who cheats on his wife can be forgiven when the wife sees positive changes. friends and family members can forgive that persons demons when they see the positive changes. this is on a waaaay different caliber than a murderer or rapist. Mistakes are mistakes....who are we to judge and place weight on them? I should have just left the conversation out..and created a thread that simply said... CAN YOU FORGIVE A PERSON'S SKELETONS OR DEMONS OF HIS PAST IF HE IS MAKING POSITIVE CHANGE IN THE WORLD TODAY....SHEEEEESSSSHHH..... I aske for it....LOL Hun, you asked for people's opinions about this. Try not to get upset about it. This is a very interesting conversation. I called you "hun".  | |
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Sweeny79 said: Rape is a pretty hard thing to get over. Maybe I'm wrong... but I think I feel the way the girl you were talking to does.
. [Edited 1/24/07 9:38am] | |
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Sweeny79 said: DexMSR said: I understand.... Yet people change...people evolve....Murderers get out of jail everyday....do you pigeonhole them with that label and not allow their resolve to be better let them have a fair share in life? To be 100% honest I think it would be easier for me to deal with a murderer then a rapist. . [Edited 1/24/07 9:38am] | |
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I think it's possible to change and become a decent person, but it's pretty tough to come back from murder or rape, and pretty unusual. Also, even if you do change, I think it's justified if other's don't really forgive you for it.
It's not like you could ever wipe that slate clean. If you've taken someone's life or changed it forever, yours should also be changed forever. It's okay to be reminded of your horrible crime. My Legacy
http://prince.org/msg/8/192731 | |
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JustErin said: DexMSR said: Mistakes are mistakes....who are we to judge and place weight on them? I should have just left the conversation out..and created a thread that simply said... CAN YOU FORGIVE A PERSON'S SKELETONS OR DEMONS OF HIS PAST IF HE IS MAKING POSITIVE CHANGE IN THE WORLD TODAY....SHEEEEESSSSHHH..... I aske for it....LOL Hun, you asked for people's opinions about this. Try not to get upset about it. This is a very interesting conversation. I called you "hun". I asked about the forgiving of a person's past....but you all pulled the microscope out and focussed on the crimes. She called me "Hun"...Imma get a personal whap yet!!!  The man who does not read good books has no advantage over the man who cannot read them. -- Mark Twain.
BOB JOHNSON IS PART OF THE PROBLEM!! | |
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Dont judge a person by their actions but by their intentions. | |
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DexMSR said: My point is....are we capable of seeing past a persons "personal" demons to allow the good the person stands for to prevail in accepting them for who they are?? We all have our ideas about how people are supposed to behave, interact, value, etc.and these ideas form a standard. Even though we can't and don't live up to our own ideology we constantly judge others by it nevertheless. We're all hypocrites, and are so damned busy worrying about others to really, really check ourselves. So,"yes", to answer the question. I'm sick and tired of the Prince fans being sick and tired of the Prince fans that are sick and tired! | |
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DexMSR said: fantasyislander said: depends on the demons, depends on the changes. one positive change doesn't forgive rape or murder. but some demons are worse than others. a husband who cheats on his wife can be forgiven when the wife sees positive changes. friends and family members can forgive that persons demons when they see the positive changes. this is on a waaaay different caliber than a murderer or rapist. Mistakes are mistakes....who are we to judge and place weight on them? I should have just left the conversation out..and created a thread that simply said... CAN YOU FORGIVE A PERSON'S SKELETONS OR DEMONS OF HIS PAST IF HE IS MAKING POSITIVE CHANGE IN THE WORLD TODAY....SHEEEEESSSSHHH..... I aske for it....LOL what the hell?? mistakes are NOT all the same. how can you think that someone shoplifting, or stealing a car, or even a million dollars is as much a mistake as someone who took a life?? there is DEFINITELY degrees involved here. yes, in any situation people get hurt, but there are definitely differences.  There is no perfect place
Yes I know this is true I'm just learning how to smile Thats not easy to do | |
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NDRU said: I think it's possible to change and become a decent person, but it's pretty tough to come back from murder or rape, and pretty unusual. Also, even if you do change, I think it's justified if other's don't really forgive you for it.
It's not like you could ever wipe that slate clean. If you've taken someone's life or changed it forever, yours should also be changed forever. It's okay to be reminded of your horrible crime.  I agree. | |
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NDRU said: I think it's possible to change and become a decent person, but it's pretty tough to come back from murder or rape, and pretty unusual. Also, even if you do change, I think it's justified if other's don't really forgive you for it.
It's not like you could ever wipe that slate clean. If you've taken someone's life or changed it forever, yours should also be changed forever. It's okay to be reminded of your horrible crime. they did the crime, can't expect that all consequences will disappear after a few years and some good deeds. There is no perfect place
Yes I know this is true I'm just learning how to smile Thats not easy to do | |
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DexMSR said: JustErin said: Hun, you asked for people's opinions about this. Try not to get upset about it. This is a very interesting conversation. I called you "hun". I asked about the forgiving of a person's past....but you all pulled the microscope out and focussed on the crimes. She called me "Hun"...Imma get a personal whap yet!!! because the crimes are to be considered when thinking about forgiveness. forgiving someone who stole $20 from you is alot different than forgiving someone who stole your virginity. get it? There is no perfect place
Yes I know this is true I'm just learning how to smile Thats not easy to do | |
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DexMSR said: JustErin said: Hun, you asked for people's opinions about this. Try not to get upset about it. This is a very interesting conversation. I called you "hun". I asked about the forgiving of a person's past....but you all pulled the microscope out and focussed on the crimes. She called me "Hun"...Imma get a personal whap yet!!! It's impossible to not look at the crime committed. Sorry, but it just is. But I do think forgiveness is crucial in healing and moving on. | |
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The problem is that we can never know that a person's truly changed. We can't know what's in their minds... People are slow to change IMO, most people don't really change... Of course, prison is an experience that can change people... | |
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Very interesting thread. | |
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JustErin said: DexMSR said: I asked about the forgiving of a person's past....but you all pulled the microscope out and focussed on the crimes. She called me "Hun"...Imma get a personal whap yet!!! It's impossible to not look at the crime committed. Sorry, but it just is. But I do think forgiveness is crucial in healing and moving on. Exactly. There's no absolute here. Is it possible to forgive someone who has done something wrong and truly, truly changed? Yes. But it all depends on all of the factors. |
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coolcat said: The problem is that we can never know that a person's truly changed. We can't know what's in their minds... People are slow to change IMO, most people don't really change... Of course, prison is an experience that can change people...
this girl I used to know said that when her boyfriend got out of jail he would only want to listen to rap music and want anal sex. | |
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DexMSR said: Sweeny79 said: Rape is a pretty hard thing to get over. Maybe I'm wrong... but I think I feel the way the girl you were talking to does.
I understand.... Yet people change...people evolve....Murderers get out of jail everyday....do you pigeonhole them with that label and not allow their resolve to be better let them have a fair share in life? | |
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Jaded- No
Wary-Sometimes | |
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origmnd said: coolcat said: The problem is that we can never know that a person's truly changed. We can't know what's in their minds... People are slow to change IMO, most people don't really change... Of course, prison is an experience that can change people...
this girl I used to know said that when her boyfriend got out of jail he would only want to listen to rap music and want anal sex.  | |
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Mach said: Oct 2005 ...
I sat and talked with an old x-friend who was one of 3 young men that raped me when I was 17 He and I are both totally different people now ... both have grown and strived to make ourselves better people both with families and loving partners I wish him the best in life and was thankful I was able yrs and yrs ago to forgive his action of raping me Mach  I don't know what to say to that... just farther proof of why I love and respect you so much
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Natisse said: Mach said: Oct 2005 ...
I sat and talked with an old x-friend who was one of 3 young men that raped me when I was 17 He and I are both totally different people now ... both have grown and strived to make ourselves better people both with families and loving partners I wish him the best in life and was thankful I was able yrs and yrs ago to forgive his action of raping me Mach I don't know what to say to that... just farther proof of why I love and respect you so much
It's all good hun ... another one of the 3 is in jail ( for a long stay ) and that's no surprize
and the 3rd has passed away It was a very tragic event and the rape was just part of it I cant imagine holding onto the victim energy and all that would have panned out to be in my life ... i had a great rape crisis assistant and huge support and a will to heal more then physically. | |
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DexMSR said: fantasyislander said: depends on the demons, depends on the changes. one positive change doesn't forgive rape or murder. but some demons are worse than others. a husband who cheats on his wife can be forgiven when the wife sees positive changes. friends and family members can forgive that persons demons when they see the positive changes. this is on a waaaay different caliber than a murderer or rapist. Mistakes are mistakes....who are we to judge and place weight on them? I should have just left the conversation out..and created a thread that simply said... CAN YOU FORGIVE A PERSON'S SKELETONS OR DEMONS OF HIS PAST IF HE IS MAKING POSITIVE CHANGE IN THE WORLD TODAY....SHEEEEESSSSHHH..... I aske for it....LOL Rape isn't a mistake in the sense that shoplifting is a mistake. You're generalising, and as Fantasy said there are degrees involved. Asking somebody to forgive a rapist is not the same as asking them to forgive a kid for stealing a car. | |
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My philosophy is that for the most part, people are just doing the best they can. When we know better, we usually do better. I try not to judge people because Im never sure that if I were them (having lived their life) that I would be any better a person. If we were to derive the "treat your enemy as your brother" rule, Im sure we'd find a simple philosophy like that. | |
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I agree with the girl | |
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