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Are we ALL jaded? I had an interesting conversation last week. I have an Eldridge Cleaver "Soul on Ice" T-shirt and the young lady said I was dirty. I asked her to expand upon that comment and she said "You have a rapist on your shirt"...."That is dirty to me"
I asked her had she read this book. She said...."I couldn't get past the first two chapters and him being a rapist of women" I then said..."so you discounted the fact that IN THE REST OF THIS BOOK, had you read it, this man turned his life around and did wonderful things for the movement within the confines of the black panther party?" My point is....are we capable of seeing past a persons "personal" demons to allow the good the person stands for to prevail in accepting them for who they are?? The man who does not read good books has no advantage over the man who cannot read them. -- Mark Twain.
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Rape is a pretty hard thing to get over. Maybe I'm wrong... but I think I feel the way the girl you were talking to does. In spite of the cost of living, it's still popular. |
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DexMSR said: My point is....are we capable of seeing past a persons "personal" demons to allow the good the person stands for to prevail in accepting them for who they are?? i believe i am. but i also believe that's something MANY people need to improve on. There is no perfect place
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Sweeny79 said: Rape is a pretty hard thing to get over. Maybe I'm wrong... but I think I feel the way the girl you were talking to does.
but yeah, i kinda agree with this too.  There is no perfect place
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Sweeny79 said: Rape is a pretty hard thing to get over. Maybe I'm wrong... but I think I feel the way the girl you were talking to does.
I understand.... Yet people change...people evolve....Murderers get out of jail everyday....do you pigeonhole them with that label and not allow their resolve to be better let them have a fair share in life? The man who does not read good books has no advantage over the man who cannot read them. -- Mark Twain.
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DexMSR said: Sweeny79 said: Rape is a pretty hard thing to get over. Maybe I'm wrong... but I think I feel the way the girl you were talking to does.
I understand.... Yet people change...people evolve....Murderers get out of jail everyday....do you pigeonhole them with that label and not allow their resolve to be better let them have a fair share in life? To be 100% honest I think it would be easier for me to deal with a murderer then a rapist. In spite of the cost of living, it's still popular. |
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Um. I wish I could say that I could, but my first reaction would prob be the same as the girls. I'd be like, What kind of monster RAPES somebody.
I heard the testimony a couple wks ago though from an old inmate and he made the point that he heard so many terrible things in prison, that some of the other inmates have done. But then he said, yanno, I had the impulse to be a drug dealer, and I couldn't fight that impulse. So he was grateful to God that he wasn't given the impulse to rape a child, because, would he have been able to gite that urge? So I guess, it's best not to judge, but to give the guy credit for changing. 
(But I doubt I'd wear him on my shirt)  | |
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fantasyislander said: Sweeny79 said: Rape is a pretty hard thing to get over. Maybe I'm wrong... but I think I feel the way the girl you were talking to does.
but yeah, i kinda agree with this too. We all have demons and skeletons in our closets. You are telling me that while a person chooses to battle or address himself, make a change for the better...he is still not worthy of your good graces?? The man who does not read good books has no advantage over the man who cannot read them. -- Mark Twain.
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Sweeny79 said: DexMSR said: I understand.... Yet people change...people evolve....Murderers get out of jail everyday....do you pigeonhole them with that label and not allow their resolve to be better let them have a fair share in life? To be 100% honest I think it would be easier for me to deal with a murderer then a rapist. Reinforcing my point then.....some of us are indeed Jaded. The man who does not read good books has no advantage over the man who cannot read them. -- Mark Twain.
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SureThing said: Um. I wish I could say that I could, but my first reaction would prob be the same as the girls. I'd be like, What kind of monster RAPES somebody.
I heard the testimony a couple wks ago though from an old inmate and he made the point that he heard so many terrible things in prison, that some of the other inmates have done. But then he said, yanno, I had the impulse to be a drug dealer, and I couldn't fight that impulse. So he was grateful to God that he wasn't given the impulse to rape a child, because, would he have been able to gite that urge? So I guess, it's best not to judge, but to give the guy credit for changing.
(But I doubt I'd wear him on my shirt) Pick a side [Edited 1/23/07 13:19pm] The man who does not read good books has no advantage over the man who cannot read them. -- Mark Twain.
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DexMSR said: SureThing said: Um. I wish I could say that I could, but my first reaction would prob be the same as the girls. I'd be like, What kind of monster RAPES somebody.
I heard the testimony a couple wks ago though from an old inmate and he made the point that he heard so many terrible things in prison, that some of the other inmates have done. But then he said, yanno, I had the impulse to be a drug dealer, and I couldn't fight that impulse. So he was grateful to God that he wasn't given the impulse to rape a child, because, would he have been able to gite that urge? So I guess, it's best not to judge, but to give the guy credit for changing.
Um.....pick a side. (But I doubt I'd wear him on my shirt) Um learn how to quote.  | |
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Sweeny79 said: DexMSR said: I understand.... Yet people change...people evolve....Murderers get out of jail everyday....do you pigeonhole them with that label and not allow their resolve to be better let them have a fair share in life? To be 100% honest I think it would be easier for me to deal with a murderer then a rapist. Me too. I'm not saying no one deserves a second chance. Just that I am incredibly, incredibly wary of anyone who could do that. But then again, I'm not sure if rape is forgivable. I guess I don't know. |
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DexMSR said: Sweeny79 said: To be 100% honest I think it would be easier for me to deal with a murderer then a rapist. Reinforcing my point then.....some of us are indeed Jaded. I think "jaded" is the wrong word to use there. | |
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SureThing said: DexMSR said: Um learn how to quote. I edited it dumbass! Whap! The man who does not read good books has no advantage over the man who cannot read them. -- Mark Twain.
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JustErin said: DexMSR said: Reinforcing my point then.....some of us are indeed Jaded. I think "jaded" is the wrong word to use there. Biased? Partial? What? The man who does not read good books has no advantage over the man who cannot read them. -- Mark Twain.
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JustErin said: DexMSR said: Reinforcing my point then.....some of us are indeed Jaded. I think "jaded" is the wrong word to use there. I agree. I get the point he's trying to make, sort of, but I don't think 'jaded' is quite it.  |
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Sweeny79 said: DexMSR said: I understand.... Yet people change...people evolve....Murderers get out of jail everyday....do you pigeonhole them with that label and not allow their resolve to be better let them have a fair share in life? To be 100% honest I think it would be easier for me to deal with a murderer then a rapist. I´m with you, I think rape is one of the few crimes that is very hard to forgive. There´s something about it that makes it harder to forgive than murder, regardless of all the other good things a man has done in his life. It is much , much more than just letting off sexual steam, and I, as a male person, will never understand the argument of hookers and their customers who keep saying that if it wasn´t for prostitution ( or porn ) , a lot more rapes would happen....I am not against prostitution or porn, but that argument simply doesn´t make sense at all....what does one thing have to do with the other ? Rape is more of a power thing than just being too horny to control yourself. " I´d rather be a stank ass hoe because I´m not stupid. Oh my goodness! I got more drugs! I´m always funny dude...I´m hilarious! Are we gonna smoke?" | |
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DexMSR said: SureThing said: Um learn how to quote. I edited it dumbass! Whap! I pick, giving the guy credit but not wearing him on my shirt.
But we all know you don't have the best taste.....steelers. | |
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DexMSR said: JustErin said: I think "jaded" is the wrong word to use there. Biased? Partial? What? Honestly, I wanted to put a better word but I just couldn't think of one. | |
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DexMSR said: Sweeny79 said: To be 100% honest I think it would be easier for me to deal with a murderer then a rapist. Reinforcing my point then.....some of us are indeed Jaded. I never said I wasn't
But the way I see it... If you kill someone you end their life, if you rape someone you basicly end their life but they still have to get up and go to work. Maybe in my mind I see rape as worse then murder. I'm sure part of that reasoning is because I am a woman, and all women live with the fear of rape that I think it would be hard for a man to understand. and just for the hell of it... I do respect that a person can change their life around and give back to others, when they have taken so much from others....but I still couldn't call that person a hero, or as Dani said, wear them on my shirt. Just my  In spite of the cost of living, it's still popular. |
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DexMSR said: fantasyislander said: but yeah, i kinda agree with this too. We all have demons and skeletons in our closets. You are telling me that while a person chooses to battle or address himself, make a change for the better...he is still not worthy of your good graces?? i'm saying it would be difficult. i know a man who raped his 9 year old stepdaughter. if he turned his life around (once he gets out of jail) and proves he's making strides to do things right, even then it would be hard for me to accept him as a friend again. especially if he were ever to spend any time around MY daughter. tbh, i don't really think i EVER could. in the case of that dude it would be easier for me to support him in his cause rather than the person himself. and i really think it depends on the person and the crime. i'm betting most women would have a hard time forgiving a rapist, while some men might find it easier. There is no perfect place
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CarrieMpls said: Sweeny79 said: To be 100% honest I think it would be easier for me to deal with a murderer then a rapist. Me too. I'm not saying no one deserves a second chance. Just that I am incredibly, incredibly wary of anyone who could do that. But then again, I'm not sure if rape is forgivable. I guess I don't know. You ALL are missing the point. It is the demons of any person that I can see that you choose to put weight on. Nevertheless, they are demons. So while you can forgive a murderer....but forever condemn a rapist. Just makes no sense. The entire point of this post was to see if you all can forgive a person's demons if they have made positive change in their lives?? The man who does not read good books has no advantage over the man who cannot read them. -- Mark Twain.
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Sweeny79 said: DexMSR said: Reinforcing my point then.....some of us are indeed Jaded. I never said I wasn't
But the way I see it... If you kill someone you end their life, if you rape someone you basicly end their life but they still have to get up and go to work. Maybe in my mind I see rape as worse then murder. I'm sure part of that reasoning is and because I am a woman and all women live with the fear of rape that I think it would be hard for a man to understand. and just for the hell of it... I do respect that a person can change their life around and give back to others, when they have taken so much from others....but I still couldn't call that person a hero, or as Dani said, wear them on my shirt. Just my Agreed. I don't know that any man can have the same understanding as a woman in the context of rape. I know men can be victims of sexual violence, but the vast, vast majority of the problem lies the other way around. |
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JustErin said: DexMSR said: Reinforcing my point then.....some of us are indeed Jaded. I think "jaded" is the wrong word to use there. Biased is better 
jad·ed [ jáydəd ] adjective Definition: 1. bored: no longer interested in something, often because of having been overexposed to it 2. tired: exhausted, especially through overwork In spite of the cost of living, it's still popular. |
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CarrieMpls said: Sweeny79 said: I never said I wasn't
But the way I see it... If you kill someone you end their life, if you rape someone you basicly end their life but they still have to get up and go to work. Maybe in my mind I see rape as worse then murder. I'm sure part of that reasoning is and because I am a woman and all women live with the fear of rape that I think it would be hard for a man to understand. and just for the hell of it... I do respect that a person can change their life around and give back to others, when they have taken so much from others....but I still couldn't call that person a hero, or as Dani said, wear them on my shirt. Just my Agreed. I don't know that any man can have the same understanding as a woman in the context of rape. I know men can be victims of sexual violence, but the vast, vast majority of the problem lies the other way around. Amen In spite of the cost of living, it's still popular. |
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DexMSR said: The entire point of this post was to see if you all can forgive a person's demons if they have made positive change in their lives?? The answer is probably no, if the crime was horrific enough. In spite of the cost of living, it's still popular. |
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Sweeny79 said: I do respect that a person can change their life around and give back to others, when they have taken so much from others....but I still couldn't call that person a hero, or as Dani said, wear them on my shirt.
Just my exactly. it's great that they're trying to make the world a better place, but that doesn't erase their past. and this kind of response is a consequence of their actions.There is no perfect place
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Sweeny79 said: DexMSR said: Reinforcing my point then.....some of us are indeed Jaded. I never said I wasn't
But the way I see it... If you kill someone you end their life, if you rape someone you basicly end their life but they still have to get up and go to work. Maybe in my mind I see rape as worse then murder. I'm sure part of that reasoning is because I am a woman, and all women live with the fear of rape that I think it would be hard for a man to understand. and just for the hell of it... I do respect that a person can change their life around and give back to others, when they have taken so much from others....but I still couldn't call that person a hero, or as Dani said, wear them on my shirt. Just my I have the shirt in respect to what he's done for our people. I can forgive his past if he has made a positive change, yet accept the fact that he did do a crime. This is blowing me away that you all would accept someone who actually TOOK A LIFE over someone who did not But again...this is NOT what my thread is about. So I would expect an issue such as rape to jade your thinking as women. I totally understand that. I am looking for answers to the fact of dismissing ANYONE for something they did in their past if they are doing good in the world. Period. The man who does not read good books has no advantage over the man who cannot read them. -- Mark Twain.
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DexMSR said: The entire point of this post was to see if you all can forgive a person's demons if they have made positive change in their lives?? depends on the demons, depends on the changes. one positive change doesn't forgive rape or murder. but some demons are worse than others. a husband who cheats on his wife can be forgiven when the wife sees positive changes. friends and family members can forgive that persons demons when they see the positive changes. this is on a waaaay different caliber than a murderer or rapist. There is no perfect place
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Oct 2005 ...
I sat and talked with an old x-friend who was one of 3 young men that raped me when I was 17 He and I are both totally different people now ... both have grown and strived to make ourselves better people both with families and loving partners I wish him the best in life and was thankful I was able yrs and yrs ago to forgive his action of raping me  | |
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