senik said:

yeah great. we get "posh" along with him.

damnit.

here's some more videos showing real skill.

http://www.youtube.com/wa...FLwgFZsJdk

(turn the volume down for this one, the music is terrible lol) http://www.youtube.com/wa...YqLjFDYTZE

http://www.youtube.com/wa...2HUyDscX-U

i friggin love this game.

oldpurple said:

Many former football players who don't have the skill to play big time football are in rugby clubs. It's a rougher game, a less organized game, but not as athletic.



Sorry, this is probably the only area that I am about as provincial as our president. Futbol is soccer and is the world's most popular sport. Football is football and few if any soccer players could play the game at the intermediate and professional levels.

Football has better athletes. Period.

namepeace said:

you've GOT to be kidding me!!



thanks for the laugh!

DarkKnight1 said:

Word!

fantasyislander said:

baby, I love you, but you don't know sports to save your life if you don't recognize this fact. if you can't see that ballers are better athletes than "footys," the joke's on you.

put becks on a Div I college football field and he wouldn't last 10 downs.

put VY, Bo, Champ, LT, Brian Dawkins, et al. on a pro soccer field, they'll run with your beloved footys.

sorry to have to break your heart. but someone's gotta do it.

[Edited 1/12/07 20:10pm]
[Edited 1/12/07 20:12pm]
[Edited 1/12/07 20:15pm]

namepeace said:

if it makes you feel good to think that you go right ahead and think that. but you KNOW "ballers" don't have half the skill and talent as "footys" on their best day of the week. can you imagine the players you mentioned above showing their skills like you saw in those videos i posted?? i mean, really.

and damn! stop changing your reply!

namepeace said:

http://www.timesonline.co...82,00.html

According to Prozone's statistics, Steven Gerrard runs over 7 miles in each game. I doubt any NFL player achieves anything like this. Also, several players past and present have been capable of well below 11 seconds for the 100m so it's not like they're slow either. Just something to bear in mind. It's silly to compare though really. Both sets of sportsmen are athletes and impressive physical specimens.

Fauxie said:

fantasyislander said:

I keep changing my reply because I'm astounded you'd fix your mouth to say that. I've watched soccer games. Even played soccer for a hot minute. I have respect for the improvisation, fluidity and endurance it takes to play the game.

But come on, baby. Have you EVER seen a football game? Guys twice the size of your beloved becks would blaze right by him. He wouldn't survive a collision with guys like Tomlinson, Barber, Bo, TO, VY and god forbid Shawne Merriman. If any of the premier athletes in the Not For Long played soccer, you wouldn't even know Beckham's name. Many of the ballers usually excelled in 3 or 4 different sports and were drafted by professional teams in different sports. They would not last, and there is no comparison.

Do me a favor. Go to a (real) pro football game sometime. You'll see.

Fauxie said:

I used to run 7 miles (yes, consecutively). That's not the mark of an elite athlete per se.

I never said footys were slow. But ballers that play the speed and skill positions are often twice as big, and run just as fast.

namepeace said:

To you. Football precedes American Football. 'Soccer' is a widely used term, but most particularly in the US for obvious practical reasons, but just because American Football in the US is hugely popular, more so than football in the region, doesn't suddenly alter the timeline of when the games were invented. American football was spawned from football and rugby. The oftentimes insular attitude in the US towards sports means that American football can be called merely football (there, and only there) with hardly any confusion.

namepeace said:

exactly. like i said, american football is 350 pound blowhards lumbering down the field running people over. yeah, you take a huge guy and run him into beckham or ronaldinho or rooney or ronaldo and they're gonna get hurt.... if he can catch them. but tell me, where is the skill, where is the talent in big guys knocking players down? is it that the big guys can run?? wow, they must have practiced long and hard to be able to run after eating all that food. like i said, can any of your favorite players show skills like in those videos? precision, dexterity, not just guys the size of bulldozers knocking people down.

namepeace said:

Agreed.
If running were the only criteria, then I guess Kenyans are the best athletes in the world.

fantasyislander said:

Do you know how many 350 pound players there are on the field at once? I havent seen many 350 pound quarterbacks, tailbacks, fullbacks, tight ends, wide receivers, cornerbacks, safeties, kickers, or linebackers. Offensive lineman and nose tackles dont take up every position.

DarkKnight1 said:

i believe namepeace is saying the american football players are best athletes b/c they are big and can run.

namepeace said:

Not THE mark of an athlete, but one example of how impressive the endurance of football players can be during a game, not even mentioning the technique and skills they have to possess at the top level also. A player like Gerrard isn't merely running 7 miles, he's passing, tackling and shooting all the while. Footballers are super fit. They're not as strong as American Footballers owing to the nature of the game and its requirements. There are subtleties to the skills and technique of football which are extremely difficult to master and to say that NFL players could cross over is optimistic at best. Not just anybody can be a world class footballer even with incredible strength, speed and even agility. You have to be good at playing the game of football. Didn't Jonah Lomu try his hand at American Football at one point? As I recall he didn't make much of an impact. It's very difficult to say who could crossover to what sport since obviously crossing over as is they'd be very poor, and we'd never know how good that person might be were the game they are crossing over to been the only sport they'd played growing up by way of being, for example, the most popular sport in that country.

DarkKnight1 said:

how many 180 pound quarterbacks, tailbacks, fullbacks, tight ends, wide receivers, cornerbacks, safeties, kickers, or linebackers do you know that have the skills of footballers? (not american footballers, you'd call them "soccer players") go back and watch those videos i posted. look at some other videos on youtube. that is skill, talent, precision, etc, etc. NOT JUST running fast.

fantasyislander said:

Now you know you done f'ed up right there, right? You know that, don't cha?



You made this about running. And the ballers at the skill and speed positions can outrun the footys. And they're bigger and stronger.

And as for skill . . . do yourself a favor and watch a football game. If you believe it involves just "fat guys" then you simply don't know the game so as to offer any comparative analysis of football and futbol.

Fauxie said:

Tell you what Fauxie. Watch a football game sometime. Just watch one. Carefully. It is facile to imply that ballers don't have skill sets and that the game of football isn't difficult to master, as some orgers on this thread have done. Passing and tackling are part of the american game as well.

And please, enougb about the vaunted stamina of futbol-ers, which is not in dispute. The skill and speed players in football are as exquisitely conditioned as the best of the footys.

These guys could cross over. Many of them played soccer, you know. Baseball, too, which requires extraordinary technique and coordination. Baseball as well. Jim Brown was the greatest lacrosse player in American history. Cats like Deion Sanders and Bo Jackson would play a full NFL game and then a major league baseball game in the same day.

Your dog don't hunt, friend.




So if VY, an athlete who was drafted by pro franchises in 2 different sports grew up playing soccer, how would he do?

If David Beckham grew up playing american football, how would he do?

There are subtleties to futbol, and to football, but it's not terribly difficult to compare athletes. Overall, stack the best of the ballers against the best of the footys and I take the ballers.

.
[Edited 1/12/07 21:09pm]

fantasyislander said:

U argue in circles.

DarkKnight1 said:

how am i arguing in circles. you said not every football player is 350 pounds. i'm saying it don't matter the size, they still don't have the talent "soccer" players possess.

namepeace said:

ok, so i was oversimplifying saying it was a bunch of fat guys. however, YOU said the amazing thing is that these guys are so big and can run fast. i mentioned running fast and SKILL. (see, look up there, you quoted it yourself). after that i went on to even post VIDEOS of said skill. i didnt make it just about running, that was just one of the things i mentioned. i've watched a football game before, many in fact. i've already said there are talented guys in football who can kick precisely, throw far, and catch. but i refuse to accept the idea that just because a guy is big and can run fast means he's talented. as soon as you show me a pro football player that can access the ball like those "soccer" players i showed you, then you'll have yourself a real argument.

until then, i'm off to bed. nighty night gentlemen!
[Edited 1/12/07 21:57pm]

namepeace said:

one final thought. passing and tackling are VERY different in the two games. tackling in american football is running the guy over. tackling in football takes precision, dexterity, and (again) skill so as not to get a red card. passing in american football involves the arms and, basically, the entire body. you think those guys would be half as good at passing of they could only use their feet and chest? i SERIOUSLY doubt it.

namepeace said:

Hey, I've not bashed the athleticism of American Football players or doubted the skills required to play the game. I know it is not a game merely of brute strength, but also intricate skill, and tactically it's one of the most methodical and impressive sports there is. I am just pointing out that physical attributes plus skill sets for a completely different sport do not translate into a top class sportsman in another sport.

If a top NFL player had grown up playing football how good would he be? Well, he'd be different physically for one thing. Playing under highschool teachers then US coaches he'd then be capable of reaching the level, were he to naturally be someone possessing the skills football requires, as good as the current top US footballers, that is relatively world class but not dominant or extraordinary. Mutatis mutandis for a top footballer growing up playing American football.

The problem is that to even entertain this scenario requires so many what-ifs, sociological and cultural switches that the whole idea becomes worthless. From a physical standpoint you may as well put forward the case for an American footballer's ability at horse racing were he to have grown up only ever dreaming of being a jockey. From a technical standpoint it's clear to see that no matter how popular a sport is, no matter how many people play it and want to be professionals, all the athleticism in the world doesn't get you even half way there and so few make the top level. You have to have that rare knack for the specific skills, wherever it comes from, which almost certainly involves cultural and sociological factors. Convert all the kids tomorrow to playing only football and you still couldn't guarantee success.

Clearly that a current player of either sport could switch across as they are now and be anywhere near playing in each sports' higher echelon is not even worth considering. The problem being that for all the abilities of an American footballer, he'd just be very poor at playing the game of football. Same goes for footballers playing American football.

fantasyislander said:

That is a point worth noting. It's clear that as humans we're far more able and capable of intricate skill with our hands than our feet and so using the latter comes less naturally. I think that's beyond question. Interestingly there are several very good Americans who play in goal at the top level in football, and I'm not even including Sly Stallone in 'Escape To Victory' in that.

What's with all the sports talk?
I really only care that he's cute.

Fauxie said:

CarrieMpls said:

For reals tho! lol!

G'damn. Finally. Does he bring his family, please? Let's deport ALL stupid soccer players to America!



Good riddance.

july said:

Which part are you rolling your eyes at? I know Stallone wasn't that good to start with, but considering the amount of training he had and the short space of time to get used to the position I thought he was pretty good.