Ace said:

Then you're better at it than me. If I'm sad, I can't just decide not be sad and it's over. I can keep myself from crying all day and night and moping for weeks on end and force myself to go out and about but it doesn't change the fact that I'm sad. In fact sometimes I can't force myself to do those things even. If I have to cry, I have to cry.
If I'm in love, I can't just decide not to be. I can behave as if I'm not, I can leave the person alone, I can get over it eventually, but it doesn't mean I wasn't ever in love.

Anx said:

This is where we part ways. Kinda like Tom Waits and John Lurie at the fork in the road in Down by Law.

Ace said:

i seem to remember writing more to that paragraph.

Anx said:

Agreed. But that doesn't mean we have to let those initial reactions linger. I think, too often, we let the excuse of the magic fairy dust of "love" enable us to do all sorts of stupid things.

Ace said:

Do I know him?

Ace said:

oh, sure. and i've grown out of doing all kinds of stupid shit that i used to do when i was younger and all stooged out over some infatuation.

or so i like to think.

i amaze myself sometimes with the stupid things i'll STILL find myself doing - ways of carrying on and pining that i thought i was through with when i was 19 years old. in a way though, i'm a little refreshed that i still can act like a dumbass. it reminds me that i still have a bit of raw feeling left. i haven't become a COMPLETE jaded robot for the sake of emotional maturity (ick).

of course, the restraining orders are never fun, but at least they think of me.

CarrieMpls said:

What Carrie said

I don't think it's something magical we can't control, no but I still realise that my emotions are formed by chemicals in my brain reacting to external stimulus - and no, I don't have control over that. Plenty of people try to, to reverse the years of patterns they learned when they were far too young to pay attention, but I'm quite happy with my patterns

susannah said:

Sure you do.

Ace said:

No, actually I don't. I can use psychology and drugs to convince myself I do, and maybe in the long run actually change the patterns that formed in childhood through the former method. But I am not a robot or machine, I am a human being who acts inherently upon primal instinct, therefore I cannot control the release of a multiplicity of chemicals in my body.

If you can, I suggest you see a doctor.

susannah said:

But don't we suppress potentially harmful "primal instinct(s)" every day? Maybe I'm not following you, but you seem to be suggesting that there are elements of ourselves we can't control. Would it then not follow that you would excuse, say, murder, because the killer had a "multiplicity of chemicals" running through his mind?
[Edited 12/11/06 13:16pm]

Ace said:

why would that be at all unusual if she approached the situation clinically rather than reacting to the murder emotionally?

Ace said:

oh for crying out loud - listen, Im not one of these people here for the pointless/entertaining debate, so Im afraid Im gonna ignore the murder comment! But for the record, thats adrenalin and testosterone, and for the record, no I dont think we can control it. I personally think that in the past 100-200 years we have somewhere along the way forgotten that these are powerful chemicals, and now we give men (bearers of testosterone, but yes women can be evil too) too much credit. Then we get shocked that they do the awful things theyve done for centuries. Im not excusing it, but we oughtta be used to it by now. They have urges, accept it.

Anyway....yes I guess youre right we do suppress those instincts. But I have never tried to suppress anything, I don't know if its actually possible. And I still don't think suppressing feelings of love is possible. If anyone wants to prove me wrong, so be it, but in my experience, that's called a river in Egypt. And it doesn't work.

Anx said:

There it is

Ace said:

I think susannah's talking about controlling feelings more than actions.

NDRU said:

She is

susannah said:

And we're talking about the feelings/emotions here, not the action. I can feel like killing someone and not kill them. I can be in love with someone and not act on it.

susannah said:

Sure you have. And you've succeeded, too.


Well, I suppose that would all depend on how you define "love". The way most people define it, it's entirely possible to not only suppress what is often a romanticized concept, but to head it off at the pass.

Ace said:

Thats an awful lot of assumptions about someone you've never met in one little post.

Sorry....I take things too seriously. Which is why I don;t do debates. over and out
[Edited 12/11/06 13:35pm]

NDRU said:

And who says you can't change how you react to things emotionally?

Ace said:

not me. but reACTing is an action, right?

NDRU said:

If you can call an emotional "reaction" an "action", I suppose so. But we're just getting lost in semantics. The question was 'Is it possible to stop yourself from falling in "love"?'. If you do not believe in the concept of "love" as most people define it, then the answer - of course - is "Yes". Wouldn't ya say?

Ace said:

What do you mean by you don't believe in love? You don't believe it exists? Does that mean you don't believe anyone really loves anyone? And if you don't believe in it in the 'traditional' sense, do you believe in something else you'd call your own definition of love?

I suppose it's all relative then. If you can prevent it for yourself, great, but I don't think everyone can.

Ace said:

well if you don't beleive in love, then yes yes the semantics have taken control!

I do believe our actions can influence our feelings. My first response was that I can avoid certain people and possibly avoid falling in love with them as a result. But if I spend a lot of time with someone I'm not sure I can control my feelings of love (should they rear their heads).

I can avoid sleeping with them, however, and sex would only further my feelings of connection with them.

So there are actions that can influence feelings, but if you take the wrong actions, the feeling might take hold, and I'm not sure I could get rid of it.

HELL NO, don't believe this. when you tell yourself one thing when you know deep down you feel something else, you are only cheating yourself.

CarrieMpls said:

I mean that I don't believe in the concept as most people seem to define it.


No, that was Chris Isaak.

I believe that people believe that they "love" people. I love my family and friends, but that doesn't mean it's some kind of "spiritual", unconditional thing and I'm fully aware that this "love" is not selfless.


The word is so tainted for me, that I really don't like to use it. I'm likin' Anx's suggestion of "Aunt Mabel". I fully believe that long-term Aunt Mabel is possible, but it takes two very intelligent people to pull it off (and a Sartre/De Beauvoir set-up doesn't hurt, either).

I like this Joni Mitchell quote from a recent interview:

NDRU said:

Again, all depends on what your concept of "love" is.

missfee said:

Unless, of course, what you "know deep down" you don't know at all.

Ace said:

well, sure, and with different definitions of "love" there can obviously be different answers to the question "Can we succeed in telling ourselves not to fall in love?"

again semantics. What is your definition of love? I've seen you question the traditional definition, but not state your own( I apologize if you have already, but it's a long thread!).
[Edited 12/11/06 14:56pm]

NDRU said:

I think I only use that word to express enthusiasm for something (e.g. "I love The Org!" ).

NDRU said: