By Amanda May

These days, women are about as likely to bring home the bacon as their male counterparts. But has this affected what kind of guy women want to date—is the size of a man’s salary still a critical element?

To get the answer, we gathered together a group of men, women and a relationship expert to talk about this controversial topic—and get some advice on how to handle the situation whether you’re a male or female, flush with cash or just getting by.

Participating in our roundtable:

Jillian Straus, author of Unhooked Generation:
The Truth About Why We’re Still Single

Liz Kelly, author of Smart Man Hunting:
A Fast-Track Dating Guide for Finding Mr. Right

Jen, 25, legal recruiter, New York

Haley, 32, public relations director, California

Rebecca, 30, writer, Kansas

Sebastian, 30, consultant and founder of a non-profit, New York

Dann, 30, TV news producer, New York




Q: Even in a day when women often out-earn men, do they still prefer to date a guy with a sizable paycheck?

Jillian Straus: I’m often astonished to overhear conversations at restaurants where a woman will ask her girlfriend, “Does he make money?” Women often want a more successful man, even if they’re successful themselves—one study found that successful women want to be with a successful man even more so than their non-successful counterparts.

Dann: There are definitely a lot of women who keep an eye on the man’s wallet. That’s why you see some women perk up when a man says he’s a doctor or a lawyer. And if he’s a hot doctor or lawyer, forget about it!

Haley: It’s not that I couldn’t fall in love with someone who made less money than I do, but it would be difficult. I want to settle down with someone who can take care of me and support a family.

Rebecca: Money has never been a consideration for me. Can someone make me happy, make me laugh, and carry on an intellectually stimulating conversation? I think about those things first and money much, much later.

Q: So why do some women still think the size of a man’s salary is still important, even if they’re making money themselves?

Jillian Straus: We are living between today, the modern world, and what we saw growing up and how we define “man” and “woman.” And in some cases, women want the choice of whether or not to stay home and raise children. In other cases, women don’t mind earning more money, but think the men they’re with would feel diminished by that. I heard one story where a woman was making more than her guy, and the day she came home with a Porsche was the day the relationship was over.

Liz Kelly: For a woman who’s on a limited budget and feels strapped, it’s scary to take on someone who’s making significantly less money. That pressure can create an imbalance in the relationship which can make people — both men and women — feel uncomfortable.

Haley: My current boyfriend pays for everything and I think I make more than he does, but I like it that way because it feels romantic, caring and chivalrous. Dating a man without money is really tough because you end up paying for everything and that wears on you after awhile.

Q: The upsides to dating a man with money are pretty obvious—but are there any downsides?

Jillian Strauss: There’s an old saying: If you marry for money, you earn every penny.

Jen: I’ve dated men with money and without and have often found that guys with money have an overwhelming sense of entitlement. You’re never that special to them because they think they can get any woman they want. Now I’m trying to find someone in the middle: Someone with a decent income but who is a nice guy.

Q: So what do men think about women who consider money a priority?

Sebastian: I once met a woman who seemed more interested in my sports car than in me. Even so, in my mind there’s nothing wrong with wanting to live well.

Dann: I don’t think it’s any worse than men pursuing only women who are really hot. But I do think anyone who does that is shallow. That said, it’s frustrating not having a lot of money because it means that you can’t do nice things to impress someone you love. You need to be resourceful—bargain hunt for good gifts or plan a date around renting a movie.

Liz Kelly: Lots of guys with money will complain to me that they don’t want to always pay for dates because they want to make sure that the woman is with them for who they are, not for how much they earn. But I agree with Dann: It’s the romance and chivalry that women want—not the free meal.

Q: So what should a man do if he doesn’t make much money?

Rebecca: I don’t feel like I need my boyfriend to spend a lot of money on me to show me that he loves me. He does that in a million little ways, like always filling my car with gas or leaving me cute little notes around the house.

Liz Kelly: Guys without money to burn need to work a little harder, that’s all. Small gestures, like burning a CD of your favorite music, go a long way towards making a woman feel special. Guys should also pay for dates early on. Career women are happy to pick up the tab when dating someone seriously, but in the early stages of dating, the guy should get the tab. It sets the stage for building a stronger relationship.

Jillian Straus: I agree that there’s still value in symbolic gestures like being taken out to a nice dinner. It doesn’t mean that I’m not a modern women, it’s just that I really value the symbolic exchange—it makes a woman feel adored.

Jen: Even if you have a lot of money, you still need to be romantic. If all you do is flash your money around, you’ll only attract the gold-diggers.

Q: Any advice for women?

Dann: In general, a woman should ignore finances and pick the guy who makes her laugh. All the money in the world won’t matter if sitting across the dinner table from this guy night after night bores you to tears.

Amanda May is a writer living in Brooklyn, NY who’s contributed to Redbook and other publications.


interest'n

Surely a big penis counts for something?

fathermcmeekle said:

It's probably worth an extra cup size in your partner.

Ambition has always been more important to me - you have to be driven & either striving for your goal or maintaining it. And the goal has to be creative - I'm a creative being so I'm drawn to that in people...

Money's not a big deal to me, as long as he can make his own way. I wouldn't say ambition is either, but he's either gotta have a 'decent' job or if its a crappy job, its gotta be cause he's passionate about something else. Or even passionate about the crappy job. I dated a guy in his mid 30's that worked at a pizza place. If he would have been all, god, I LOVE my job and let me tell you why, I wouldn't have thought twice about it. But he didn't seem to care much one way or the other, didn't seem to have much ambition to do anything else and didn't seem to have any constructive hobbies outside of that. So bleh. That one didn't last long.
[Edited 12/1/06 6:04am]

It only matters to me if he has children and makes enough to take care of them...otherwise, I don't care. I'm not wanting to be taken care of.

Like CalhounSq, having ambition is more important to me.

I don't think it matters at all. Not to me anyway.

What matters most is that he shares my values and is supportive of my goals and ambitions.

It's unlikely that I would fall for someone without a job and with no drive because that type of man just doesn't appeal to me - I like someone who can talk with some degree of confidence and has something to say about his day, and who wants to make a difference to the world.

I hate that type of superficial world where money, the type of clothes you wear and car you drive influences the way people perceive you.

I guess for me it boils down to responsiblity, compatibility and desire for personal growth. If he can take care of himself and those he is responsible for (if any), he's creative and smart and looks to better himself...he's all good in my book It doesn't come down to a number for me.

On the opposite side, I think I'd be intimidated by someone who had lots and lots of money. I know it doesn't and shouldn't matter. And maybe it wouldn't. But I think I'd find we wouldn't be all that compatible. Not have much in common. I don't know. Weird. I never thought about it.
I think I've probably made more money than almost all of the guys I've dated. I don't know that for sure, but if I had to guess, I can only think of 1 or 2 who probably made more. And I'm not a rich girl by any means!

funkpill said:

What an annoying -----. Why can't she take the initiative and treat her man once in a while? Caring and chivalrous my ass. Take care of your own damn self. I stay far away from women like this. Her boyfriend better wake up and put a pair of pants on.

yes, it always has. Since the begining of time. Who's bringing home the bacon.

How much a man makes is very important to women. A man with money will always get way more attention from women than a man who does not have as much. It's sad and shallow. Men don't usually care how much money a woman makes.

To a certain extent, I could understand them wanting a more successful guy. It might not necessarily be about the money itself, but rather, that it shows the guy has some ambition and goals in life, rather than just sitting on the couch all day like a slug.

She might appreciate being with someone that's also a hard worker.

I like that commercial when the groom is carrying his bride through the door of his apartment and he say , 'and here is where we will be spending the rest of our lives!' and she looks around and its boards on boxes and tires.

Tom said:

I think it's a about money. Just because you make a lot of money does not make you are hard worker.

funkpill said:

it's really a man's ability to exude some sort of power. Monetarqlly, physically, sexually, and of course mentally.. which would be the least important. Women don't want wimps...

Like Seinfeld said, men don't care about a woman's job.

Salary is not the the issue.
He could make a million a year and be broke.
Women want someone who knows how to handle whatever he has.
Broke, desperate, and stupid is not attractive.

lilgish said:

Do drug dealers seem powerful, or do they just have money at the moment?