SupaFunkyOrgangrinderSexy said:

i agree, not as sexy as the president sticking a cigar into an intern's poonanny, and painting her dress with dna

purplerein said:

No not that sexy at all. At least the presidents daliance didn't actually affect the country, unlike the crooks who ran this country for the last 6 years. I'm sure most Americans would rather some chick have jizz on her dress than to have to deal with the theft of the treasury and the killing of innocent people for the Vice Presidents friends benefit. Those days are stellar compared to the fucking mess we have right now.

SupaFunkyOrgangrinderSexy said:

im going to have to disagree with you there....9-11-2001 changed america and the world. think back to how you felt on that day. I know how I did, and what my priorities became-keeping my children and family safe. everything else is secondary. the president's dalliance did affect the country, because his brains were in his penis, rather then on getting osama bin laden.

Those bastards. I knew this was going to happen when the election was over.

I thought this was only going to happen if Prop 87 passed!

purplerein said:

With Bin laden surrounded, the bush administration outsourced the job of his capture and he roams free to this day. Please do not start pointing fingers over presidential failures Because unlike Clinton, Bush had troops on the ground to finally deal with him and he failed to do the job.

9/11 has been an excuse for the Republican party for the last 5 years and the voters have stated they aren't buying it anymore. Bush did not have a mandate in 2004, nor was his win because the country yearned for his policies or positions. Point blank, independents gave him the benefit of the doubt and they were scared. Bush and the Republican party has had 2 years to prove themselves to those voters and the voters have seen that they are not fit for the job.

SupaFunkyOrgangrinderSexy said:

let's talk about it in two years. the dems ran on nothing but iraq...they offered no solutions, programs, plans or details for ANYTHING.
thanks for sharing

purplerein said:

Bush has said he's open to any and all ideas on how to solve the Iraq problem, showing he hasn't had a clue what the hell he has been doing this whole time. At least Democrats have been advocating some positions, but the country was only hearing "Stay the Course", of course until Bush saw the polls and tried to flip flop his way out of believing he ever uttered those words.....

We will see what is offerered. Some are talking a more federalized Iraq and at this point that is worth trying since the country is obviously falling apart.

SupaFunkyOrgangrinderSexy said:

we'll be fine Supa, please don't worry.

purplerein said:

You're the one running scared because people might actually get a raise in their minimum wages. I'm not worried

SupaFunkyOrgangrinderSexy said:

A raise in minimum wage will cause more unemployment than anything else.

purplerein said:

It won't. If companies can afford hundreds of millions in pay packages for corporate executives, they can pay the lowest wage earners a little bit more. The party is over for the time being, time for corporate America to play fairly

SupaFunkyOrgangrinderSexy said:

can't agree with you there.

purplerein said:

Of course you won't.

Everyone has been having a party right? The rich have benefitted immensely from bush tax cuts. Corporations have enjoyed unhindered profits and have gotten the policies they paid for. Even Congress has enjoyed pay raises and yet, the lowest class in this country isn't eligible for a sliver of a pittance? Why not? Business will be fine, because they will imagine many more ways to make money. Your belief is based on hysteria and greed and is not good for this country.

I can't understand how anyone couldn't support raising minimum wage

Those jobs are often the hardest, least rewarding jobs. And they are also often the most important to keeping a business going.

I make well over minimum wage and I feel like I'm constantly broke, and I have no kids, no car payment.

I don't understand how anyone could survive on minimum wage. It honestly just doesn't seem possible in the US.

NDRU said:

It's not. Anyone who has been poor can vouch for this.

And it shows the mean spiritedness of conservative "values". There is enough money in the business world to pay lavish packages for management but the actual workers who make it possible for success to happen in the first place are nothing but pawns for those who prefer greed over everything else. It's quite disgusting

This would affect small businesses but I support and believe that small business should have tax breaks to counter this. I have no problem with that at all.
[Edited 11/9/06 12:57pm]

SupaFunkyOrgangrinderSexy said:

I saw a report on a restaurant owner who was against raising minimum wage because he couldn't afford it, and customers wouldn't accept any raise in costs.

But inactuality, costs are always going up, but minimum wage hasn't for a long time.

What kind of raise are they talking about? Roughly $5.40 to $6.40? Say this restaurant owner has 20 minimum wage employees, all he has to do is make $20 more per hour to cover this. If his restaurant is successful at all, this shouldn't be a real problem. If he can't do it, it's not because of the extra $20/hour that his restarant is failing.

SupaFunkyOrgangrinderSexy said:

and if the minimum wage had been raised incrementally over the years, we wouldn't be playing catch-up now, which admittedly, would be hard on small business.

but the gap in CEO-to-worker pay ratio is what is hurting the economy in the long run. your average minimum wage earner spends all of his/her income, whereas millionaires, despite their higher relative spending, can't and won't make up for that difference.

sorry, PR - trickle-down economics has never worked and never will.

oh, and...

IrresistibleB1tch said:

there's just no way that not raising the wages of the lowest paid employess could help anyone bu the highest paid

IrresistibleB1tch said:

how many jobs went over to india...why?..because they do the same work for less money. sorry, I don't buy the raise the minimum wage is good for us arguement.

purplerein said:

But many of those companies that send jobs overseas are exploiting the workforce. Surely you don't think US workers should be exploited just to keep their jobs?

purplerein said:

outsourcing is a trend that is part of the "the market will provide" mindset. living in the South, where a lot of jobs have gone to Mexico, China and India over the last few years, i hear a lot of complaints about it, of course. but we have to remember that moving to lower-wage areas worked just fine for us a while back, when a lot of jobs moved here from Canada, Europe and the Northeast.

the raise in minimum wage is good for us as a society because poverty brings with it all sorts of long-term issues. it might not affect you immediately, but it does affect many others, and, in the long term, you as well.

purplerein said:

It might not be good for you but it sure as hell is good for the single mother or the struggling student. And foreigners might do the same work for less money, but that does not make it right.

Corporations who move overseas to maximize their profits, while exercising the bulk of their business here in the US, should be TAXED for doing so. Republican "values" only respect capital, even at the expense of the middle class. Democrats need to exploit that issue for all it's worth. The hardworking Americans all across this country deserves a government that does not enable corporations to remove jobs here in the US.

SupaFunkyOrgangrinderSexy said:

i do not believe government is the answer to all our problems. less government, yes...but more government...pffffft

purplerein said:

We've had booming government for the last 6 years. I don't know why you ignore this Republicans have exploded every myth they tell about the left. We have had the biggest government ever and they have made democrats look like pennypinchers.

Look what we get when we trust the "market". Job losses. How much of the midwest and the south are suffering incredibly because of the loss of manufacturing jobs? Why does a corporation deserve to take advantage of 3rl world workers more than an American deserves a job?. Let business do what it wants but if it is harming the American economy they should be taxed.

.
[Edited 11/9/06 15:01pm]

SupaFunkyOrgangrinderSexy said:

we lost manufacturing jobs because of the unions.

purplerein said:

Please explain.

On a note here, I agree that Unions should be more flexible in their demands, however the Union movement in this country brought value to this country for they fought for the worker and what is right. We shouldn't enable companies to get around basic standards and that is exactly what they are doing when they take their shops to India where they can pay them practically nothing and then sell it to us for huge prices.

I know it's hard to break your dependence on the romantic idea of unending profits but perhaps you can think of your own children and the prospect that they will face the same issue that many in this country have. You might not have the ability to care for anyone but yourself, but I'm assuming you do care for them..... Think about their future.
[Edited 11/9/06 14:55pm]