althom said:

ooh la la

coolcat said:

This is true, although I was the smart kid that got looked down on.

Stymie said:

That sucks. Sadly everything in the world seems to be a competition.

Stymie said:

Yeah, me too (until somebody needed help or something ).

AsianBomb777 said:

And I would just like to say that I would do Steven Hawking over any supermodel any damn day of the week!


I do not look up to people because of their appearance. I just don't. I honestly do not feel inspired by conventionally beautiful people, and often the people I think are the best looking are people that others find to be plain or strange looking.

I generally find conventional "good looks" to be boring.

It doesn't mean they're bad people -- some of my best friends are conventionally good looking -- just that I have strange taste.


Mostly, I look up to people who are exceptionally kind. Beauty and intelligence are mostly luck. Kindness is cultivated by a good heart.

I haven't had time to look through the whole thread yet. Maybe someone's already said what I'm going to say. ah well.

I've talked about this a lot here at the org over the last year or so, and that's cause it's what I've been focusing on most in my life during this time. But oh well, here goes again.

What I see in the mirror is not an accurate, objective representation of what I really look like. Over the span of my life, this has gone both ways, from thinking I was tremendsouly obese when I was actually quite thin, to being in denial over how overweight I was/am. I thought that through all the work I've been doing over the last year, this had gotten better. But recently, I was jarred out of my mind. We all know I've been losing weight, but I hadn't reliazed I'd gained some back as well. When I saw pics of me at the MinneVasion I was honestly floored at how awful I looked. That is not what I see in the mirror. Denial, once again. I know I'm not thin yet, but I'd no idea I was that shape, that much fat still left to go, that much larger than the average person. It devastated me, to be honest. To realize that where I thought I was is so far off from the actuality of it.
It's crazy, but I can tell how my mood and overall well-being helps determine what I see in the mirror. I probably feel most at peace with myself and my body during yoga class. Which is funny, cause I wear tight clothes that reveal every roll of fat (that I won't look in the mirror in before I leave the house) and I'm definitely not the most accomplished in the class as I've only been doing it for a few months. But still, once class starts and I see myself and my body in the mirror, I like what I see. I feel good, so I look good. I smile a lot. I can be sitting, with my legs stretched out in front of me, and I'll like the heart shape my hips and thighs make down to my knees. I like that I'm curvy, womanly, feminine. But then I see a photo and realize how different it all looks.
I don't know what the answer is. It's been this way my entire life. I don't think I'll ever objectively know what I look like. I'm trying to focus on health, rather than appearance, but that's not working much right now either. I'm healthy. I'm just fat. And I don't know if I'll ever be happy with that.

PS - There's a lot to read here and I'm super busy at the moment.
I'll come back and comment soon.

HereToRockYourWorld said:

HereToRockYourWorld said:

I couldn't agree with you more, lady. My tastes tend toward the unconventional. And I think I see others the way I see myself. The more I think of them as a person, the more attractive they are to me. Physically and all. Its just how I work.

Though, I will say, I thought Dan was crazy, till I thought about fashion. When I see really amazing fashion, it inspires me to want to dress better. When I see models on a runway, I don't care about looking like them or being them, but dammit! I want the clothes!!

CarrieMpls said:

I'm not crazy. You are mean.

AsianBomb777 said:

BULLSHIT!

CarrieMpls said:

CarrieMpls said:

Ass!

AsianBomb777 said:

Seriously, though, your idea of models and actors with amazing stereotypical good looks and that being inspiring to you, well, I just didn't get it. It's what someone else said, it's just not my thing. It's your thing, though, and that's ok.
I think for some of us we see someone with a "perfect" body and think "I'll never be that" so its more discouraging than inspiring. When I hear amazing musicians, it doesn't make me want to be one, cause I'll never be as good as them. I know it's not possible, so why even bother.
But in thinking it over my one exception is fashion. It's the one thing where when I see truly outstanding examples of, I get even more inspired. Probably cause I think if I really put the effort in, I could make, or at the least wear, clothes that fabulous if not more so.

You can be skinny and still not happy with your body. I think being happy with your appearance comes from being happy with your emotional/mental life.

confidence is at the core of what is sexy to me. you can be shit hot and still terribly unattractive by way of mannerisms, behavior, the way you carry yourself, etc., etc. - i'd wager to say that someone who's a little less than conventionally perfect yet has great confidence probably gets more love than an airbrushed perfect shell containing an encyclopedia of neuroses.

i used to look in the mirror and not really be happy with my body or my face n shit like that, i still have moments when i say :shit im not really that good looking" but now, ive reagained a new confidence and when i look in the mirror now? i see a new person lost weight,workin out getting myself together and ive accepted myself. cus for years i hated me

Anx said:

Good point! In my experience, this is very true.

CarrieMpls said:

Carrie, was your dad a truck driver too?

CarrieMpls said:

I think that's it right there. It's about self-acceptance. Learning what our individual best is and what healthy is for us rather than trying to live up to a standard of appearance set by a small minority of people. Why don't you think you'll ever be happy with being a voluptous, curvy woman?

Fantastic thread - I started reading it last night.

I'll be honest, I really don't know how to answer this. Or where to start. I'm not deliberately being evasive or anything - it's just such a huge issue and one that I'm in the process of dealing with. I'd either explain it really badly or end up taking four pages of the Org, prattling on.

All I can say is that I relate to many, many things written here. And I totally understand where Carrie is coming from. That has always been the case. If you've spent most of your life as someone with low self-esteem, it doesn't matter how much you bolster your own confidence or change old patterns of thinking - there's still no harsher critic than yourself.

The older I get, the more happier I've become with myself. Good. But whether that's because I genuinely feel that way or because it's a form of resignation (that I am who I am and, well, what can you do?) I'm not sure.



.
[Edited 11/3/06 18:55pm]

applekisses said:

It's not that I won't ever be happy being a curvy woman, it's that I don't imagine ever being at peace with my body, period. I never have been, I can't imagine how that would change, regardless of what size I am. And I've learned that no matter what I see in the mirror, that's not what I look like anyway, so I can't trust it. I imagine myself always to be self-conscious. I think the idea of the right body for me in my mind is something I'll never achieve.
So I have to learn to be content with that. I'm getting good at learning to live with my neuroses.

CarrieMpls said:

We've all got 'em, girl. And maybe that's the BIG answer...learning to be content with what our best is... Do you think you're comparing yourself with other people? If so, whom?

applekisses said:

omg, I compare myself to everyone. It's awful. I'm not a competitive person, so it's not really in that nature, but I look at women who I imagine to be close to my size and think "Am I that size? Is she bigger than me, or am I bigger? Do I look like that? Do I 'wear' it better than her?" Cause I honestly don't know.
And if I think someone has a better body than me (I am sooooo envious), I usually size them up and about 4 out of 5 women, I decide that if I were them, I'd be WAY better looking cause I would know better how to style their hair, and what clothes would be more appealing and I've got tons better style. These are the thoughts that go through my head. I don't know how to get rid of them.

PS - The other alternative would be never to see another picture of myself again. I could live in my fantasy world that how goregeous I may look to myself in the mirror IS reality and never have to be confronted with actual reality. And oh, what a world that would be.
[Edited 11/3/06 8:13am]

CarrieMpls said:

Remind me to wear a big sack when I see you next or maybe you already think I have been anyway

ellieadore said:

Oddly enough, I don't do it with any women I know. It's only when I'm out and about in public with complete strangers. And it's not that I obsess over it. It's just a game I play.


BTW - You're gorgeous and have a gorgeous sense of style.

CarrieMpls said:

Me too.

CarrieMpls said:

I don't have time to read all this right now but want to make a comment

As for cameras and accurate body image:

The saying the camera never lies.. is BULLSHIT.

Fact is the camera likes some and doesnt others. I have seen stunning woman that photo horrid and vise versa. The camera in the last few years is far kinder to me then the truth. I am often mortified that it is going to tell on me.

Muse2NOPharaoh said:

In one sense, I get what you're saying. I know when I see a flattering photo and a non-flattering one.
But in another, in my specific example, I have people telling me I look 'just fine' or even gorgeous in photos I am horrified by. People who were there when the photo was taken, mind you. If they think that's 'fine' then that's what they think I actually look like. And if that's the case, then it's way off of my own perceptions.
It's still a wake-up call that I don't look like what I think I do.