JustErin said:

They DO all matter, but it's really hard to make a bus or an airplane that gets 40 MPG. It is, however, very very easy to make a passenger vehicle that gets good gas mileage. They exist. People just have to buy them.

Among other things. Like, living in dense areas that are walkable and have public transportation, and voting for people who care about this stuff.

Stuff people have control over. Unlike, say, the gas mileage that busses get.

HereToRockYourWorld said:

Yes, I totally understand what you are saying and I do agree.

Ok, so let's make the SUV obsolete (which in the grand scheme of things is not really having that much of an environmental impact since so few, compared to cars and other vehicles, are on the road)...but let's just get rid of them...our biggest emission offenders - buses and trucks and diesel vehicles, not to mention millions of older cars are still poluting. So how much further along in are we really in regards to emissions? Not very far at all.

Invasive action should be taken now and it should apply to all vehicles. Sure, it may be harder to come up with solutions for some of these larger vehicles but if it's our children's future that we are so concerned about we should stop at nothing to make a difference. I suppose you could say that getting rid of SUVs is a start, for sure, but it doesn't really even make a dent on the real problem.

We're definitely on the same page, I just get irritated by people who do not look at the bigger picture when discusing issues like this...like they think SUVs are the reason we are in the trouble we are in now (btw, people did not mean you specifically, I meant in people in general).

JustErin said:

I understand what you're saying. I see that we're on the same page, and you're right about the big picture.

It's not that I think SUVs are the cornerstone of the problem. It's that they are so representative of an attitude. An attitude that is especially pandemic among Americans, a group that I am less and less proud to belong to as time goes by. It's an attitude suggesting that anything which doesn't land you in prison is ethical, and any consequence of your actions that will happen primarily outside of your own geographic region or lifespan is meaningless. It's an attitude that problems are for other people to solve. We're too busy leading our Very Important Lives to be bothered.

I hate it. Which is why the SUV thing pushes me past rational solutions into a place where I'm just pissed.

JustErin said:

I understand what you're saying. I see that we're on the same page, and you're right about the big picture.

It's not that I think SUVs are the cornerstone of the problem. It's that they are so representative of an attitude. An attitude that is especially pandemic among Americans, a group that I am less and less proud to belong to as time goes by. It's an attitude suggesting that anything which doesn't land you in prison is ethical, and any consequence of your actions that will happen primarily outside of your own geographic region or lifespan is meaningless. It's an attitude that problems are for other people to solve. We're too busy leading our Very Important Lives to be bothered.

I hate it. Which is why the SUV thing pushes me past rational solutions into a place where I'm just pissed.

Tom said:

Yep, the thing about test driving a car is that one doesn't have as much time to fully evaluate all its features. Some people at Edmunds.com are complaining that they their V6 Sonatas aren't as fuel efficient as was adverrtised. In my case, it is the cheap sound and how my music CDs get as hot as if I had put them over a cooking stove.
I know Alpine manufactures CD head sets and that one of their advantages is that they don't skip as much. But what is Crutchfield?

HereToRockYourWorld said:

Morrissey - America Is Not The World

America, your head's too big
Because, America,
Your belly's too big
And I love you, I just wish you'd stay where you is

In America
The land of the Free, they said
And of Opportunity
In a just and a truthful way
But where the President
Is never black, female or gay
And until that day
You’ve got nothing to say to me
To help me believe
In America

"It brought you the hamburger"
Well. America, you know where
You can shove your hamburger
And don't you wonder
Why in Estonia they say
"Hey you, Big fat pig
You fat pig, You fat pig"

Steely-blue eyes with no love in them
Scan The World
And a humourless smile
With no warmth within
Greets the world
And I, I have got nothing
To offer you
No-no-no-no-no
Just this heart deep and true
Which you say you don't need

See with your eyes
Touch with your hands, please
Hear through your ears
Know in your soul, please
For haven't you me with you now?
And I love you, I love you, I love you
And I love you, I love you, I love you

Fauxie said:

HereToRockYourWorld said:

Morrissey - America Is Not The World

America, your head's too big
Because, America,
Your belly's too big
And I love you, I just wish you'd stay where you is

In America
The land of the Free, they said
And of Opportunity
In a just and a truthful way
But where the President
Is never black, female or gay
And until that day
You’ve got nothing to say to me
To help me believe
In America

"It brought you the hamburger"
Well. America, you know where
You can shove your hamburger
And don't you wonder
Why in Estonia they say
"Hey you, Big fat pig
You fat pig, You fat pig"

Steely-blue eyes with no love in them
Scan The World
And a humourless smile
With no warmth within
Greets the world
And I, I have got nothing
To offer you
No-no-no-no-no
Just this heart deep and true
Which you say you don't need

See with your eyes
Touch with your hands, please
Hear through your ears
Know in your soul, please
For haven't you me with you now?
And I love you, I love you, I love you
And I love you, I love you, I love you

luv4all7 said:

I am intrigued by the convenience of a 5-door vehicle that DOESN'T require a stepladder to get into and can fit into a parking space with minimum fuss.

gyro34 said:

Vue - We love the gas mileage, we went with the 4 cylinder version of this car...it's got nice looks, good gas mileage and surprising room, plus it's been very dependable for us (and Saturn has been really good about scheduling appointments for check ups)

Eddie Bauer - It's got all of the extras that you would expect - leather seats, great sounds, sunroof, steering wheel touch pads for the radio, heater etc. and
plenty of room.

sacredwarrior said:

Your emotional rant has really made me question my manly, SUV, existence. Im gonna go cut my dick off, trade my Durango in for a hybrid, kill all dogs that ride in SUV's, pump birth control into the overpopulated worlds water supply, and walk to work every day for the rest of my life.
Thank you for opening my eyes.

gyro34 said:

Crutchfield is a store that sells car audio equipment. You can buy stuff from them online or through their catalog.

JustErin said:

I understand what you're saying. I see that we're on the same page, and you're right about the big picture.

It's not that I think SUVs are the cornerstone of the problem. It's that they are so representative of an attitude. An attitude that is especially pandemic among Americans, a group that I am less and less proud to belong to as time goes by. It's an attitude suggesting that anything which doesn't land you in prison is ethical, and any consequence of your actions that will happen primarily outside of your own geographic region or lifespan is meaningless. It's an attitude that problems are for other people to solve. We're too busy leading our Very Important Lives to be bothered.

I hate it. Which is why the SUV thing pushes me past rational solutions into a place where I'm just pissed.

HereToRockYourWorld said:

You are an incredibly awesome woman.

Stymie said:

I prefer the cool and rational me, actually. But the fur-wearing, pitbull-bashing, SUV-driving threads are really bringing out the raging bitch in me lately.

Stymie said:

I prefer the cool and rational me, actually. But the fur-wearing, pitbull-bashing, SUV-driving threads are really bringing out the raging bitch in me lately.

Can a Scion XB be considered an SUV even though its all small?

PurpleJedi said:

I bought a Caliber and I love it!

I love how there are two seperate threads here. The people who have a problem with the SUV concept, and the people calmly discussing the ins and outs of purchase and ownership as though this other vein isn't even here. With all of the contentious topics that arise on the org, you almost never see this happen.

I'm not a fan of SUVs. I don't generally see the purpose. People who have lifestyles wherein they need to tote many children or goods can and do buy practical vehicles like trucks, minivans, etc. And while I absolutely agree we should hold such vehicles to proportionate emission standards, too, at least I can buy their true utility. In the aggegrate, a minivan, gas-guzzler though it may be, actually serves us well when/if people use them for their real purpose -- to pool. I've simply seen darned-few SUVs that can match that service. They're big, but it's not like they're SOOOOO roomy that people can fit entire extended families, groceries, furniture, hardware, etc. in them. We should face it: Except for those who live in tundra, the wilderness, the mountains or the desert, folk who buy SUVs (and, yes, I'm generalizing here) basically want to look cute in their condo on wheels. It's their prerogative, of course. And it doesn't make them evil. But there's generally no more "utility" in an urban SUV than that.

...All that said, I don't judge people for the cars they buy: My wife drives a Honda CRV. I confess it's comfy, we can see over shorter cars (for whatever psychological worth that offers ) and it's not the gas-guzzler I assumed it would be, but it does burn more gas and doesn't afford that much more truly practical room than a sedan. Not having it is certainly a sacrifice we could comfortably live with.

Strictly my own opinion.
[Edited 10/9/06 18:42pm]

Lammastide said:

Honda CRV. Uhm, yeah...looks like what I am looking for.

All of this SUV bashing is really getting to me and how I am treating the planet. Im gonna go buy the cheapest gas I can find and drive some hybrids off into the ditch while I longingly contemplate my selfishness.