NDRU said:

no, you didn't!

IrresistibleB1tch said:

HereToRockYourWorld said:

co-

IrresistibleB1tch said:

Isn't he fucking awesome?


I hate dumb people who choose to remain dumb. Ignorance is not bliss. Ignorance is very dangerous.

As for smart people, arrogance is a total turn-off.

Stymie said:

yeppers. but you knew that...

a dumb person is someone who knows better and keeps making the same bad choices, almost out of spite.

a smart person is someone who knows better and keeps making the same bad choices but knows how to get away with it.

a wise person is someone who knows better and does better and feels good about that.

in my opinion.

I prefer smart threads to dumb threads.

NDRU said:

True. I remember when they gave us an assignment in school many years ago, where they divided people into two groups and then asked each group to come up with arguments for a given standpoint in a controversial issue. The standpoints were the exact opposites of each other. For example, one group was asked to speak for the death penalty and the other against. The debates that followed were endlessly interesting since they became very heated despite that a lot of people were arguing for an opinion that wasn't even their own! These were intelligent people, chosen for the assignment, but they got completely absorbed by the idea of winning the debate, so much so that it didn't even sway them to have their own thoughts thrown at them by the enemy - they still took it apart as if it was nothing! Pretty scary actually.

retina said:

I'm not sure I understand why that's scary...
Learning how to debate is learning how to back-up any argument. I was never on a debate team, but my understadning is you don't get to pick which side you argue for or against, it's assigned to you and you have to support it.
Often I can see both sides to any issue. I have a hard time making up my mind on many things. And often, I can debate just for the sake of it. I don't like to. But sometimes someone pushes my buttons enough that I will. Or maybe I think someone's not looking at all sides of thingss, so I bring up the opposing. You learn more by looking at all angles.

stupid people are the only group of people i'm openly bigoted against. i am, unfortunately, the fred phelps/jesse helms of stupid people. i think they should all be rounded up and put on their own island where they can live their stupid lifestyle away from the rest of us.

NDRU said:

ugly people









j/k lol

CarrieMpls said:

It's scary because - like NDRU said - it can get dangerous when a clever person can convincingly argue ludicrous opinions (which is a very possible scenario since people obviously can argue opinions that aren't even their own). That's what Hitler did, that's what Mao did, with disastrous consequences. Rhetoric can always hide the true nature of an idea, we already knew that, but one could at least have hoped that a very ill conceived idea would be impossible to speak for in rational, logical terms. Not so.



Of course you should look at things from all angles, I've never argued against that. Like I said though, the scary part is that some people can be so convincing even when they're talking out of their ass.

Christopher said:

you're just jealous!

Anx said:

Or just sterilise the fucking lot of them!

I hate dumbfuckers, there is just no excuse in western society to be stupid. You don't have to be Newton or Da Vinci but at least have a general understanding that to better yourself with knowledge has to be an advantage.

PREDOMINANT said:

i think there's ignorance and then there's stupidity. ignorance is innocent - it's the lack of knowledge. stupidity is choosing ignorance as a lifestyle. ignorant people are fine. they're just smart people in training...we're all ignorant about something. but yeah, these dumbass stupid people need to be put in pods underground or something, i don't know.

Oh, I meant to say that smart people can be anoying too but at least they understand when to shut the fuck up and move on.

Anx said:

PREDOMINANT said:

agreed. i'm living proof!
[Edited 9/29/06 6:12am]

CarrieMpls said:

Exactly. It's a good skill. And practicing the ability to understand the whole of an argument, not to just pick a side and keep coughing up comebacks, is like strength training for the mind.

Dumb people are definitely worse. You can't even carry on any semblance of meaningful conversation with them. At least with smart people you may not haven anything in common but you can probably learn something from them.


A teacher called me to bring her class of 15 students to the museum and I told her it was a flat rate of $75 for up to 18 students. She said other museums only charge $5 for students. I said, "If you divide $75 by 15 it equals $5 per student. If you bring 18 students it will be less than $5 per student." She was so confused. It's not like I was talking about deriviatives and logarithims and shit--it was basic division. I hope she doesn't teach math!

Dumb people suck!

Anx said:

Ignorant is fine. Who cares what facts someone knows?

But there's almost another species of human that just doesn't seem to have the wheels turning. You tend to see them on "Cops" a lot.

retina said:

That sounds like some kind of psychology experement.

There was a character in an Ayn Rand book who would argue one side on the debate team, then argue the other, winning both sides.

The problem is that sometimes a smart person can be wrong, but their skills in arguing are good enough that they'll never be convinced. "Dumber" people (this term is pretty gray now) are often more willing to listen.

HereToRockYourWorld said:

It's a good exercise if they eventually get to what they believe the truth is. But Retina was saying people were totally focused on the competition of it. So really they're not getting closer to the truth, they're just honing their arguing skills.

Sometimes a "dumb" person knows right & wrong without having to overthink it like that.

NDRU said:

when a subject is not clearly black or white but a shade of grey (as many things are in this world), i can see how someone could argue both sides with no disingenuity whatsoever.

i think a smart person is savvy enough to acknowledge their ignorance. i think a stupid person can be fantastically booksmart, but they may mistake their ability for rote retention for core intelligence.

Anx said:

Excellent point. The labels of smart & dumb get completely broken down. If a "smart" person uses their knowledge and abilities to further some dumb behavior/opinion, they're not smart at all. "Dumb" people show their intelligence by admitting they don't know something.

That character wasn't choosing a side, he was just showing off. Retina's example would have been a much better exercise if the students were forced to argue both sides. The problem with this world is that people won't listen to the other side. They only hone their argument for the side they've chosen.

NDRU said:

This sounds like sophistry. I think you can 'smartly' apply debating as a persuasive tool if your goal is to simply win or just win over an audience. In this case, dumb and smart are equally culpable. What's worse, the people doing the insincere convincing or the easily convinced?

bc

PeteZarustica said:

The people doing the insincere convincing of course. They are intentionally deceitful, whereas the easily convinced simply lack ability to see through the arguments. Can't blame them for that.

retina said:

both. i think people have as much of a responsibility to be sincere persuasive speakers as they do to be sensibly critical listeners.

Anx said:

I would agree.

Anx said:

Of course, but sense isn't like an attitude that you can put on like some overcoat. You can practice of course, but if something escapes your attempts at keeping a critical eye, I don't think you can be blamed for that nearly as much as someone who is intentionally deceitful. Abusing a power is always worse than lacking it, IMO.