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Reply #60 posted 08/29/06 1:50pm

HereToRockYour
World

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SupaFunkyOrgangrinderSexy said:

HereToRockYourWorld said:




Sure, the levy issue was a big part of this, and those can be built to be better than they were before. The thing is, you can't look to the past to understand what NO is gonna be like in the future. We may NOT be able to prevent it. The climate is changing. More hurricanes, higher sea levels. . . perhaps there was a time when the cost-benefit analysis worked out, but it doesn't now, and it sure as hell won't in a few decades.

I'm not saying that those generations don't matter, or are worth nothing. What is happening is deeply unfortunate, and could have been prevented in several ways. But we didn't. And you know, shit happens. Those generations of people put down roots in a swamp. They're gonna end up being uprooted. It's not fair, but it's not fair for the rest of us to pay for the alternative. Look at our economy. We can't AFFORD it.



We can afford a lot. There are reasons we can't afford stuff right now. Tax breaks for those who have everything in the world they could possibly need and want....and then some. The Iraq war. It's all about priorities. If we have half a trillion to spend on Republican follies, we can surely muster up the money to save an American City.


The fact that we could reprioritize and cough up the money doesn't mean that we can afford it, or that we SHOULD. What do we, as a nation, want: affordable health care, or to subsidize the residents of New Orleans? Decent public education, or a major urban area to continue to be rebuilt on a marsh every few years? We have limited resources. YES we're squandering them. My argument is that we should stop squandering them, and continuing to pay for New Orleans is not wise.
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Reply #61 posted 08/29/06 1:53pm

SupaFunkyOrgan
grinderSexy

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HereToRockYourWorld said:

SupaFunkyOrgangrinderSexy said:




We can afford a lot. There are reasons we can't afford stuff right now. Tax breaks for those who have everything in the world they could possibly need and want....and then some. The Iraq war. It's all about priorities. If we have half a trillion to spend on Republican follies, we can surely muster up the money to save an American City.


The fact that we could reprioritize and cough up the money doesn't mean that we can afford it, or that we SHOULD. What do we, as a nation, want: affordable health care, or to subsidize the residents of New Orleans? Decent public education, or a major urban area to continue to be rebuilt on a marsh every few years? We have limited resources. YES we're squandering them. My argument is that we should stop squandering them, and continuing to pay for New Orleans is not wise.



I cannot get behind eliminating a major US city, not even for the reasons you have set forth. Like I said, gut the city and level it to the ground and it becomes beachfront oil property and that will still need to be protected for the economic health of the companies that move in. We can do that for people too.
2010: Healing the Wounds of the Past.... http://prince.org/msg/8/325740
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Reply #62 posted 08/29/06 1:53pm

purplerein

SupaFunkyOrgangrinderSexy said:

purplerein said:




the federal goverment has an army. the states do not. otherwise we'd have New York attacking New Jersey

It's just hilarious that you resort to the states rights when it's convenient for your cause but fall back on the federal government when it suits you lol Typical.



typical response on your part Bunky, the federal government can solve alllll
our problems, better then we can ourselves kisses
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Reply #63 posted 08/29/06 1:54pm

SupaFunkyOrgan
grinderSexy

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purplerein said:

SupaFunkyOrgangrinderSexy said:


It's just hilarious that you resort to the states rights when it's convenient for your cause but fall back on the federal government when it suits you lol Typical.



typical response on your part Bunky, the federal government can solve alllll
our problems, better then we can ourselves kisses



Do you have the billions of dollars to rebuild your city if it's destroyed? You don't and chances are neither does your state. Get fucking real.
2010: Healing the Wounds of the Past.... http://prince.org/msg/8/325740
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Reply #64 posted 08/29/06 3:05pm

HereToRockYour
World

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SupaFunkyOrgangrinderSexy said:

HereToRockYourWorld said:



The fact that we could reprioritize and cough up the money doesn't mean that we can afford it, or that we SHOULD. What do we, as a nation, want: affordable health care, or to subsidize the residents of New Orleans? Decent public education, or a major urban area to continue to be rebuilt on a marsh every few years? We have limited resources. YES we're squandering them. My argument is that we should stop squandering them, and continuing to pay for New Orleans is not wise.



I cannot get behind eliminating a major US city, not even for the reasons you have set forth. Like I said, gut the city and level it to the ground and it becomes beachfront oil property and that will still need to be protected for the economic health of the companies that move in. We can do that for people too.


Companies that move in should have to accept the economic risk just like people who move in. And it's a big risk.

I didn't say I thought it should be "eliminated". I think that if people want to be there, they should be allowed to be there. But they can take that risk on their own behalves, not on all of our behalves. No insurance, no federal bailout.

On the upside, land should be cheap. They can put their savings in a repair fund. I'm serious.
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Reply #65 posted 08/29/06 3:08pm

SupaFunkyOrgan
grinderSexy

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HereToRockYourWorld said:

SupaFunkyOrgangrinderSexy said:




I cannot get behind eliminating a major US city, not even for the reasons you have set forth. Like I said, gut the city and level it to the ground and it becomes beachfront oil property and that will still need to be protected for the economic health of the companies that move in. We can do that for people too.


Companies that move in should have to accept the economic risk just like people who move in. And it's a big risk.

I didn't say I thought it should be "eliminated". I think that if people want to be there, they should be allowed to be there. But they can take that risk on their own behalves, not on all of our behalves. No insurance, no federal bailout.

On the upside, land should be cheap. They can put their savings in a repair fund. I'm serious.


Why is any other place in this country any different tho? Just because we don't experience earthquakes every month does not mean we don't know the risk is there that a big one will hit. Should we just apply this to everyone and let it be a free for all? State of Emergencies are declared all over the country and yet we pay for that. Flooding, hurricanes, fires. NO should be no different, IMO.
2010: Healing the Wounds of the Past.... http://prince.org/msg/8/325740
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Reply #66 posted 08/29/06 3:19pm

HereToRockYour
World

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SupaFunkyOrgangrinderSexy said:

HereToRockYourWorld said:



Companies that move in should have to accept the economic risk just like people who move in. And it's a big risk.

I didn't say I thought it should be "eliminated". I think that if people want to be there, they should be allowed to be there. But they can take that risk on their own behalves, not on all of our behalves. No insurance, no federal bailout.

On the upside, land should be cheap. They can put their savings in a repair fund. I'm serious.


Why is any other place in this country any different tho? Just because we don't experience earthquakes every month does not mean we don't know the risk is there that a big one will hit. Should we just apply this to everyone and let it be a free for all? State of Emergencies are declared all over the country and yet we pay for that. Flooding, hurricanes, fires. NO should be no different, IMO.


The difference is the level of risk, which is substantially tied to the severity frequency of the disasters, versus the benefit to the people who are footing the bill. The cost-benefit analysis does not work out in the case of New Orleans. There might be other areas where it doesn't work out either, I don't know. For areas that are extremely likely to face repeated widespread destruction, I have no problem with the government and insurance companies creating zones and saying, "this place isn't worth it". If people feel differently, they are free to live their at their own risk.

Ideally, this wouldn't be necessary, but because we've FUCKED our planet, it is.
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Reply #67 posted 08/29/06 4:09pm

Ottensen

jerseykrs said:

it was a poorly civil designed city to begin with, poor city planning, poor location, just my two cents.


but culturally speaking, it was one of the brightest gems in our crown. beyond coca-cola and military might, there's not much we have by way of legacy that contributes to the culture of civilization. but at least we have had new orleans, the home of jazz music.
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Reply #68 posted 08/29/06 4:13pm

SupaFunkyOrgan
grinderSexy

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Ottensen said:

jerseykrs said:

it was a poorly civil designed city to begin with, poor city planning, poor location, just my two cents.


but culturally speaking, it was one of the brightest gems in our crown. beyond coca-cola and military might, there's not much we have by way of legacy that contributes to the culture of civilization. but at least we have had new orleans, the home of jazz music.


That right there..... The city has a cultural legacy that is worth something.
2010: Healing the Wounds of the Past.... http://prince.org/msg/8/325740
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Reply #69 posted 08/30/06 3:49am

Rhondab

Imago said:

It's the "chocolate city" thing. If Detroit were to suffer the same disaster, I doubt the federal government would care for it either. shrug















I'm in Indiana sad lol
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Reply #70 posted 08/30/06 3:51am

Rhondab

u mean this didn't get moved to P&R


wow.... eek
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Reply #71 posted 08/30/06 10:07am

SupaFunkyOrgan
grinderSexy

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Rhondab said:

u mean this didn't get moved to P&R


wow.... eek


shhh shhh shhh mad!!!!!
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Reply #72 posted 08/30/06 10:27am

HereToRockYour
World

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SupaFunkyOrgangrinderSexy said:

Ottensen said:



but culturally speaking, it was one of the brightest gems in our crown. beyond coca-cola and military might, there's not much we have by way of legacy that contributes to the culture of civilization. but at least we have had new orleans, the home of jazz music.


That right there..... The city has a cultural legacy that is worth something.


I want to be clear that I'm not suggesting that New Orleans is worthless. I'm just saying that there might be limits.
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Reply #73 posted 08/30/06 7:53pm

althom

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As someone outside the country looking in, I'm amazed at the lack of effort there is in helping these people. On the news today they showed New Orleans still looking the same as it did a year ago.
Where is the effort in cleaning it up and rebuilding?
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Reply #74 posted 08/30/06 8:04pm

Imago

althom said:

As someone outside the country looking in, I'm amazed at the lack of effort there is in helping these people. On the news today they showed New Orleans still looking the same as it did a year ago.
Where is the effort in cleaning it up and rebuilding?


There isn't any Althom. There are whole communities without schools, fire departments, etc. a year later.
Much of the city isn't generating enough revenue to keep the local government going. Being the largest money making city in Mississipi, I can't see how the state itself isn't imploding becuase of it.
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Reply #75 posted 08/30/06 8:07pm

LuxuryBrown

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althom said:

As someone outside the country looking in, I'm amazed at the lack of effort there is in helping these people. On the news today they showed New Orleans still looking the same as it did a year ago.
Where is the effort in cleaning it up and rebuilding?

Because the U.S. isn't dependent on the resources there (Rhymes with 'Boil') nor do those people have billions of dollars invested in the United States like a certain minority group does.
~This brown experience made me the man that I was meant to be~
~So what you see is what you see, can't be nobody else but me~ -Luxury Brown
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Reply #76 posted 08/30/06 10:22pm

CinisterCee

2the9s said:

How did it get built up in the first place? Does anyone know?

It seems so counterintuitive.


I'd like to know the answer to this one too... like why that "high-risk" area was settled in the first place. Maybe there is something to learn from that when you compare it to "TODAY". hmmm

So far, I see both sides.
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Reply #77 posted 08/30/06 10:32pm

althom

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Imago said:

althom said:

As someone outside the country looking in, I'm amazed at the lack of effort there is in helping these people. On the news today they showed New Orleans still looking the same as it did a year ago.
Where is the effort in cleaning it up and rebuilding?


There isn't any Althom. There are whole communities without schools, fire departments, etc. a year later.
Much of the city isn't generating enough revenue to keep the local government going. Being the largest money making city in Mississipi, I can't see how the state itself isn't imploding becuase of it.

See, I don't know ALL the fact. Only what I catch on the news over here. But this would not be allowed to happen here in Australia. There would be an outcry for the goverment to get off their arse and do something about it.
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Reply #78 posted 08/30/06 10:43pm

ladygirl99

Rhondab said:

Imago said:

It's the "chocolate city" thing. If Detroit were to suffer the same disaster, I doubt the federal government would care for it either. shrug















I'm in Indiana sad lol

Me too. I currently lives in Indianapolis . I understand about the rest of Indiana but dissing Nap the home of Indy 500 and the Black Expo? disbelief
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Reply #79 posted 08/31/06 5:29am

Anx

ladygirl99 said:


Me too. I currently lives in Indianapolis . I understand about the rest of Indiana but dissing Nap the home of Indy 500 and the Black Expo? disbelief


i lived down the street from the indy 500 and if i never hear about it again it will be too soon! though the black expo is cool - my mom used to sit at a booth for state employment every year and when i was a kid, i got to go and fill up a goodie bag with free pencils and rulers and whatnot. i had a great time...even met spike lee one year!
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Reply #80 posted 08/31/06 10:40am

SupaFunkyOrgan
grinderSexy

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CinisterCee said:

2the9s said:

How did it get built up in the first place? Does anyone know?

It seems so counterintuitive.


I'd like to know the answer to this one too... like why that "high-risk" area was settled in the first place. Maybe there is something to learn from that when you compare it to "TODAY". hmmm

So far, I see both sides.

It was settled over 200 years ago..... I don't see why that matters. The Netherlands deals with levees and dykes and they protect their cities and their way of life.
2010: Healing the Wounds of the Past.... http://prince.org/msg/8/325740
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