I've just become aware of their reports on Bangkok's alleged child sex industry in regards to the John Karr case. I can't believe this passes for journalism. I take it Fox is pretty influential too, which is rather scary.

Anchorman: If the suspect John Karr did rape and kill JonBenet Ramsey, as he says he did, it's not surprising where he fled to. He was busted in Bangkok, a place some people call a pedophile paradise because of its lucrative child sex industry.

Bakhtiar: This is a billion dollar industry in Bangkok... Kids as young as 5 or 4 being trafficked and taken to brothels, taken to "painter" bars, taken to places where they basically are used and abused for sex objects.

Anchorman: What is a "painter" bar?

Bakhtiar: It's some bars that are, you know, in some place called Washington Square in downtown Bangkok where people go to get drinks. It's a low key bar but where sex is offered.

("Painter bars"? Well, you have some bars, karaoke bars, strip clubs and the like where women over 18 do leave the bar and have sex for money. There aren't any places like this actually in Washington Square, but never mind. )

Anchorman: With kids?

Bakhtiar: With kids varying in ages and the kids are treated very poorly, John. Basically, they have diseases, they don't get medical attention, they're not fed properly, they're beaten if they don't make enough money.

Anchorman: This guy, there's a lot of suspicion falling on him because he has a history. He was arrested for having child porn on his computer, he fled from the charges, he's claiming to be in love with JonBenet and, therefore, confirming all this is the fact that he was in Bangkok, Thailand.

(so because he was in Bangkok he must be a paedophile?)

Anchorman: Is the only reason somebody would go to Bangkok, Thailand is the sex industry?

Bakhtiar: Well, I'd hate to speculate on that and ruin Thailand's tourist industry altogether [smiles broadly] in one shot, John, but it's listed as the third place for child abuse and child sexual exploitation. Basically, children there see anything between two and ten clients per week... it's one of the biggest industries for them.

(dodgy statistics - a part of a report I saw was using general sex industry stats as child sex industry stats)

One presenter referred to Thailand as 'kiddie porn central'. Of course, as in other countries there is child sex abuse here, but the implication that it's rampant, that Bangkok specifically is the centre for it (incorrect - the problems, when there were problems, used to be in the north and north east almost exclusively), and that foreigners here are all paedophiles, really gets my goat. I do recall a couple of instances several years ago of foreigners being thrown in prison for having sex with underage girls here, but these news reports suggest the government (who I actually dislike, but not their stance on this) actively encourage it, which is false. They're very sensitive to the reputation Thailand has had in the past (and still now, it seems), and over the past 4 or 5 have been all over the bars checking specifically that this isn't going on. It's well known here, at least, about how the current government, along with the King, have made moves to close the bars earlier and to regulate them very strictly. Most bars actually close just after 1am. Because Thailand has a well-known sex industry these lazy journalists just decide that Thais accept their children being part of this too. I was in the org chat a little while back and the ignorance on this subject was scary. People I chatted with seriously thought Thai parents were selling their kids into sex slavery left, right and centre and that this was the norm.



Is Fox News always like this?

Basically, any man visiting Bangkok is a pedophile, according to Fox News, and Washington Square echoes to the screams of diseased five-year-old starving slave children being raped and beaten by thousands of salivating Western pedophiles given free passes by the money-grabbing Thai Government.

...
[Edited 8/21/06 23:54pm]

....people like this exist all over the world ...I don't think people realise how broad it is ...and could even be going on next door .....to generalise and sterotype one paticular place, race, sex etc is naive
[Edited 8/22/06 0:03am]

Ocean said:

Indeed. There are greater problems in Cambodia and Vietnam, but it happens all over. It should be a priority to crack down on child sex abuse, but this kind of hyperbolic, prejudice journalism is disgraceful and insulting.

"In countries such as Thailand, child sexual exploitation builds on a long-standing and vast prostitution industry, and thrives where law enforcement is weak or corrupt. That sex with young teens is not a strong taboo in some Asian cultures makes fighting the problem even more difficult."

Long-standing as in during the Vietnam war America pressured the government into a statute permitting prostitution in areas where American troops stayed? Thailand did have prostitutes before this, of course, but much of the reputation and ultimately prevalence comes from this act.

As for sex with young teens being 'not a strong taboo', in Thailand sex in general is pretty much taboo among regular Thai people, who typically are very conservative almost to the point of being prudish, and who would not condone sex with young teens, let alone young children. That there are quite a few prostitutes in Bangkok, who far more often than some can accept choose their job knowingly and without being forced, does not mean Thai people in general accept child sexual exploitation.

...
[Edited 8/22/06 0:55am]

According to UNICEF's stats and Thailand population under the age of 18, it would appear that 0.0017% of people under the age of 18 are employed in the sex industry. I've heard, however, that this also includes as employment in the sex industry jobs in karaoke bars where girls sometimes work from the age of 15 or 16 taking orders and singing a patron's request, but not having sex with customers. In the org chat when we were talking about this, some were suggesting that all children here were in danger of being sold into the sex industry as if parents in Thailand in general could really care so little for their children. I won't say it doesn't happen, as it does, and though Thailand has made great strides, the numbers are still higher than I think they could be. South-East Asia in general definitely has more work to do than perhaps some other areas. You're never going to stop it happening completely, of course, but you have to keep trying. However, I can't stand the kind of crap Fox News is putting out there about this.

Ok, I've had my rant.

Its also bad for gay paedophilia too. I have friends who visit Pattaya and say boys as young as three come on to gay beaches and offer themselves for sex and they have make up on and all. Theres Boystown which once had a bar called Splash where boys a syoung as 14 swam around in a tank waiting for bloated Westerners to buy them for 500 baht. Also place called Sunee Plaza where boys in their early teens also sell sex for sums of a few hundred baht. It does not help that many Thais look a lot younger than they are, so people who buy a 16 year old boy may only do so because he looks 11.

99% of what Fox News reports on is a steaming pile of shit; chock full of yellow journalism. It's my dad's favorite news channel and he watches it all the time I can't fucking stand it!

Anybody who makes generalizations based on what Fox news is spewing lately needs some serious re-direction...ugh.

Are you suggesting that Fox started this "rumor" about Bangkok? I have been hearing about Bangkok being a paradise for underage sex since the early 90's....long before Fox News even existed. I have also been hearing similar claims about Vietman, the Philipines and many other places (paticularly in Aisa)

It should also be noted that since this story started I have heard similar claims about bangkok on CNN and the 3 network news stations along with nearly every talk show I listen to.

To single out Fox News is as irresponsible as you are accusing them of being and seems politically motivated.

Yes of course Fox news is always like that.


The most disturbing thing about the news shows is that they place too much makeup on their anchor people. Seriously, it's like drag queen makeup on certain days.

evenstar3 said:

CNN and MSNBC are no less biased in their reporting. there's no such thing as an unbiased news report

purplerein said:

I agree, all American media is skewed in a direction it probably shouldn't be. Fox news just annoys me more than the others because of their whole 'fair and balanced' crap.

Aparantly, so is Canada! Their age of conscent is 14!!!!!

I stick to CNN-Fox always sounds more slanted to me .

nurse said:

yes, CNN has no agenda

purplerein said:

I never said that. It appears as though CNN offers a more equal view, but in general in my opinion all media has an agenda.

lovemachine said:

No, of course not. It isn't a rumour, since compared to many countries, and especially in the past, Thailand has had a problem with this. However, you "hearing about" it in the 90s really says very little about how widespread or common this is. Many people are similarly now "hearing about" how Bangkok is 'kiddy central' from Fox News and drawing a conclusion based on Fox's reporting that is almost certainly inaccurate. That they make several basic factual and statistical errors doesn't exactly cause one to give much credibility to the overall angle they're pushing. It's obvious they are trying to be sensational, so you get this alarmist, exaggerated story.

Don't get me wrong, I know it happens, but what they're trying to suggest here, from what I've seen, from people I know and their experiences, and from living here long enough to avoid making quick judgments about what I see, is just not the way it is. They make it sound like you can easily just walk around, find a bar in Bangkok openly employing underage boys or girls, pay your bar fine and have your evil way, all while the government and/or police sit around cheering you on. I'd like to see Fox News try. There are many misconceptions about Bangkok in particular, owing to its well known sex industry. Bangkok, for all of that, is not quite what it seems. I think many get this idea of Bangkok being this disgusting, sleazy metropolis, while the rest of Thailand is traditional and pure. There's more than meets the eye.

...
[Edited 8/22/06 17:59pm]

lovemachine said:

FOXNEWS is one Smoove Condi column away from being the conservative version of The Onion.

Anx said:

lovemachine said:

bkw said:

I was thinking the same thing.

And the accusation of political motivations seems like an implicit agreement that Fox news is skewed towards one of the parties.

What a brittish man in Bangkok cares anything about our 2 party system here in the U.S. is beyond me. Fuaxie's post was obviously about the irresponsibilty of the news station (if we can call it that) itself and how it pertains to the country he lives in and seems to have grown to love.

.
[Edited 8/22/06 18:26pm]

tane1976 said:

They did have some relatively high profile problems with bars there, with tour operators even refusing to send customers there for a while, but it's not the same as it once was. It certainly has a very well established gay scene and did attract some paedophiles for its reputation for young boys ('boys' as in males, regardless of age, as is the term used by foreigners, with a 'boy' of 18 often looking underage). Trouble is, the focus is primarily on eradicating prostitution (child and adult) that caters to foreigners, which is actually overwhelmingly the minority portion of the industry. The story you hear is foreigners coming over on sex tours, almost single handedly creating the industry. As always, it's far more complicated than that, with Thais making up the majority paying for these services. Certain elements of tourism unfortunately encourage and draw exaggerated attention to some portions of the industry, causing reports such as the one by Fox.

...
[Edited 8/22/06 18:33pm]

Thailand is so misrepresented in the western world. I have been there twice and it is one of my favourite places. i have spent alot of time in Bangkok.

Guess what, never once did I see any evidence of the sex industry at all. You know why? Because it is kept in small pockets of the city where i didn't go (just like most cities).

Thai people in general are shy and prudish. They are kind and gorgeous. Most of all, they are extremely family orientated.

It just gets me that western countries, in particular the US, will point the finger elsewhere rather than in their own backyards. This filthy disgusting creature (Kerr) was home grown red, white and blue.

Imago said:

100% correct!

bkw said:

dude, you are sooooo flirting with me!

bkw said:

You'll take what we say and like it!!

USA! USA!



.
[Edited 8/22/06 18:36pm]

2the9s said:

You tell his barefoot ass!

Imago said:

Imago said:

Imago said:

I can assure you I had no political motivations, especially regarding US politics and transparently skewed news corporations.

But seriously, the point is, it does go on. Thailand has a problem. It's not what it once was, but it's still a problem. I just take issue with Fox News for the way they've reported this. The overall picture that's painted is so wrong in so many ways. This is such a hotly debated topic in these parts right now for that reason. While the statistics are always going to be hard to come by, here's a general overview of what the deal is on several issues based on what I know and the experiences of others. There is some degree of speculation here, and my own knowledge is thankfully limited somewhat, but I think based on all I've read, experienced and heard, I know enough to give a decent overview, at least more accurate that was Fox is offering up as fact:

- Prostitution is officially illegal in Thailand, but laws allow for certain services (massage, dancing) and allow for a 'bar fine' to be paid whereby a person takes the woman/man off the premises to have sex in a hotel, apartment etc. The age of workers in such jobs is legally required to be 18+. There are moves to legalise prostitution officially, but these current laws are intended to keep straight up brothels to a minimum and keep adult prostitution in private, off the streets and out of the actual bars.

- As bkw said, the sex industry is confined to certain areas in Bangkok and similarly so in areas of certain cities in the rest of the country. It is not everywhere and everything you see when you are in Thailand.

- Most customers, overwhelmingly so, paying for sex with adult prostitutes, are Thai.

- Establishments aimed at foreigners, where sex is offered, do not hire girls under the age of 18 as the risks are extremely high, with the exception (in Bangkok) of Soi. Nana and Soi. Cowboy. It seems that in bars in these two areas girls of 16 and 17 are sometimes employed, likely due to the corruption of those in charge in these two notorious small sois.

- Children are not offered for sex in any typical bars, go-go bars, massage parlours or the like that might be frequented by foreigners, including even sex tourists specifically looking to come here to pay for sex. You cannot walk down the street into a "painter bar" as suggested by Fox, go into a bar and request to have sex with a child. It's behind closed doors, off the streets, hush-hush, and seemingly almost exclusively a 'service' used by Thais. These places may be sought out by determined and distinctly twisted foreign sex tourists, but they are not common or anything like out in the open and freely doing 'business'. Rural areas in the north and north east would appear to be the most problematic areas for child sex abuse, with the perpetrators being almost exclusively Thais.


So you see, Fox News more than implies that the primary reason for foreigners to come to Thailand is for sex, and furthermore, for sex with children. It suggests that Thais neither care or attempt to stop children being abused, and openly allow bars on the streets of Bangkok to offer up children for sex with any passing foreigner with the slightest inclination. That's what I take issue with.

...
[Edited 8/22/06 19:19pm]

Fox News is, hands down, the worst news network on TV.

Fair and balanced my ass.