cborgman said:

CHRIS!!! Stop beating yourself up! Just the love and good thoughts people sent to me during that time helped me more than you can imagine (and I KNOW you sent me those ) I was so grateful that everyone was able to help IN THE WAY THEY COULD and would never, ever expect or ask for more than that...like I said...every good thing...no matter how small...helps I love you...now stop this...you are a wonderful soul.

SupaFunkyOrgangrinderSexy said:

Elena and Kristine keep asking when you're coming back!

Oh, man.

I hate that I can't post what I want to here (I'm at work, and even if I wasn't, I'm in a place these past few weeks where I'm unable to really open up emotionally at the moment without fear of losing my unemotional "stronghold" on a few other areas in my life). I hope that makes sense, and I just wanted to extend compassion to Chris, Richard, and Andrea.



That’s all I can handle right now and I hope you three can understand.
[Edited 8/16/06 14:16pm]

What you´ve done was great and the fact that you´re still thinking about this shows that you´re a compassionate person. There should be more people of your kind. It is just further evidence of what kind of a unique and beautiful character you are, and I´m saying this because I´ve read quite a lot of your posts and seen and studied the way you think and react on this board.

That being said, keep in mind, and please don´t get me wrong, keep in mind that there are these kind of people who are handicapped and look Muslim , for lack of a better description, and they make their living feeding off of compassionate people like you.

I´m not saying that she doesn´t or didn´t deserve the money, all I´m saying is that I´m familiar with this scenario, I´ve been in similar situations before, and like you´ve said, you met her in one of the richest places on earth, surrounded by rich people...ever wondered why exactly she was there, and not somewhere else ?

A lot of these people , mostly women with headscarves, are Gypsies and they seem to be everywhere right now, even where I live. They are organized in gangs, they teach and force their children and other people´s children to beg for money or steal, and it´s not a good thing...it´s some sort of a beggars mafia so to say.
Over here they were literally in every city in the mid 90s, they kind of go from one country to another.
Please don´t think I´m a cold hearted person, I´m not, but I´ve been worrying about them too and always felt bad for them but I noticed them spread all over Europe. My cousin once told me that a lot of them get busted and the police often find a lot of money on them, they literally force their own people to do such things instead of getting themselves together.

I kind of respect them for what they are and how they live, which means I don´t respect that lifestyle per se, but I understand that that´s how they want to live, that ´s the life they´ve chosen and there´s no sense in expecting them to change or adapt to the norms of society. I had some Gypsy friends as a teenager, of course they were not to be compared with the woman you saw but they had their own unique mentality, whether they were Gypsies from Turkey, Romania, German Gypsies or whereever, and I respected them for staying true to themselves.

Of course there´s always the possibility that this was really a very poor , maybe even Muslim , woman who kind of got lost in the capitalist world,
so I don´t want to judge or condemn her, and I´m not saying people like her shouldn´t be given any money, on the contrary, I also do this from time to time, I´m just saying you shouldn´t worry so much about it.

You´ve done what you did , you gave her some change..and that´s great.And as long as you don´t know the details or the rest of the story, that´s the best you could have done.

Sorry folks, I know this sounds like some coldhearted stuff but it´s not meant that way. I´m just saying Cborgman shouldn´t torture himself thinking too much about this incident.
I can relate to it and have been pondering about this too , many times, and just wanted to share my view.

PS: Might sound like an urban legend to you but there was this old beggar in my hometown, everybody knew him , and our teacher would tell us not to give him any money because he was actually quite rich.

So, give if you want to give, it´s a good thing to share and be generous and compassionate, also try to give some food sometimes, but keep in mind that there are a lot of folks out there who make a living from the compassion of others, and that´s not a good thing, especially if it involves keeping children and handicapped women on the streets, begging for money because they have to or otherwise they get beaten up or crippled by their gangleaders.

In the end , it doesn´t really make a difference whether you´ve given her some change or five dollars, it´s the intention that counts.

Mach said:

True.

This woman today gave you a most exquisite gift - she stirred in you an awareness and greater compassion which will stay with you, hopefully always.

Don't beat yourself up further over having not 'given enough' this time; what matters is the future, and you will see this woman again or another like her, and when you do you might be able to give money or you may not - but what you gave today, and what each of us are always capable of giving no matter what one's financial circumstances is human acknowledgement and respect, and a warm and caring hand...that is a currency far more valuable than money, though often it's spared even less, and likely because it costs one more. Again, you gave that today.

Don't get over today's experience. Keep it at the forefront of your heart.

WillyWonka said:

Words of wisdom.....respect.

You are NOT an asshole

Mach said:

Cborg

INSATIABLE said:

C, you did what you could. Don't feel bad about it.




M

I have much love and respect for you. Please do not beat yourself up.. Like Mach said this is a lesson- for all of us really- thanks for sharing..

Your a great soul and you should not feel bad about what you did for her and think you should have done more.

You reached out and that takes a lot- I understand how it touches you though and really makes you think. That makes you a wonderful human

You are so NOT an asshole.

Samaar said:

I couldn't have said it any better. You gave her something and you did it from your heart. That right there might have said more to her than the amount you gave her bacause it showed her that someone cared. No need for beating yourself up at all.

refresh

SupaFunkyOrgangrinderSexy said:

it does

cborgman said:

you are GOOD.

you're a nice guy Cborg.

Chris please realise what an amazing guy you are... you did a GOOD thing!! you think you failed somehow? did you see all those OTHER people giving anything to her at all? no... only you hon

INSATIABLE said:

totally understand. thank you

KoolEaze said:

that is very sweet of you, actually, and i am very touched.

and thanks for the insight...

WillyWonka said:

okay, not to seem like a lazy bastard, but it is gonna take me forever to go trough and post repsonses to everyone thanking you all for the sweet words and trying to lift me up.

so, this will have to do:

for each of you and my sincerest thanks. very sweet of all of you.

i actually have an update.

after i left work yesterday, i was walking to the subway, and saw her again. i immediatly whipped out 10 bucks and gave it to her. she thanked me and then i kind of walked over to the side, as i was on my cell phone with ryan and couldnt get on the subway yet. (no cell reception in the subways)

i was watching her, and she like in one quick fluid motion, flipped the cup, emptying it into a bag around her neck, and started crying out "help. help. help." again. another guy came up and gave her some. literally, within two seconds of him dropping it in the cup and passing her, the cup was empty again. like, the speed and fluid practiced motion of it was amazing.

and i started looking at her closely and realized i remembered her. a few weeks ago, she had been in front of my building, with a sign about having children to feed and no money, no home, and a dead husband, and she had been WALKING UPRIGHT WITH NO BRACES at the time. the clue i remember was that same tattered skirt, with the very faded leapord print...

then i thought, no, no, i must be mistaken, theres no way.

i looked closer, and noticed that her arm braces put her very very low to the ground... like hands less than a foot off the ground. earlier in the day, i had thought it was to redistribute the weight to her front half and off her legs, but the dynamics of that make no sense... it would make more sense if the braces kept her upright.

i went home and tried it out with two broomsticks, and it is way, way, WAY more difficult to walk the way she was than if the braces kept her upright.

so, kool, i think you might be right. i am pretty sure she is a professional.

oh, well.
[Edited 8/17/06 6:03am]

cborgman said:

i hate to sound insensitive, but you need to strengthen your new york armor.

if you really want to help people like this who you encounter on the streets, and i'm SERIOUS about this, find some leaflets for homeless/women's/youth shelters and food kitchens, and be able to help get these people the help they REALLY need...because there are a lot of resources out there for people like her, and she probably doesn't even know it.

on the other hand, there are a HELL of a lot of con artists and career junkies in nyc who'd love nothing more than to put on a really sad little show for you in order to part you from your money. sorry to sound so jaded and cynical, but i learned how to be helpful to others in NYC while not letting myself get screwed over by strangers.

Anx said:

not insensitive at all, and i think you are right. read the update. i am pretty sure i got conned.

cborgman said:

whenever you think you had a "genuine" moment on the street with some stranger who needed something from you, chances are about 99.9% that you got conned.

Anx said:

I totally agree...and this is what I was getting to earlier (minus the con angle, which I didn't think about at the time).

applekisses said:

one thing i always found interesting was when someone would ask me for money and i'd say "no, but i can tell you where you can get free food, a shower, and a place to sleep" and they'd be all, "no thanks, i just need money".

i think when someone really is in NEED, they don't have the luxury of being picky. i mean, i've never been homeless so i don't know the realities of it, but i've also never had to feed a drug addiction, nor have i been a snotty teenager who thought it would be cool to panhandle for fun money. i got burned enough times and i heard too many con stories to let other people's financial problems be my business when i lived in NYC. it was hard enough for me to keep mySELF fed, let alone support others. if people are hungry, there are places to go for food. you really CAN turn your life around in NYC...you just have to want to.

Anx said:

i am learnign that.

Anx said:

Exactly I've offered to buy people meals before in lieu of money and they refused them. I'm usually not one to be suspicious, but there's some kind of self-protection mechanism that's built into you when you live in or near a big city. I really think it's a great idea to arm yourself with knowledge of sources to get people help...it tells you right away who is into the con and who needs the help.