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Printablecborgman said: god, i missed the shit out of tara. willow's 7th season gf just wasn't the same. i cried and cried. the other one that got me was when momma summers died. brilliant episode. cried and cried in that too Yes, I think "The Body" was one of the most outstanding hours of television ever created. I, also, greatly missed Tara. I wish the original plan of bringing her back had worked out as Joss intended. I remember an interview where either he, or Amber Benson, stated that there was to be an episode in Season 7 where Buffy gets a chance to make one change in the universe, to have whatever she wants - and she tells Willow she wished for this really great pair of shoes or something... and then Tara walks in.  | |
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jtfolden said: cborgman said: god, i missed the shit out of tara. willow's 7th season gf just wasn't the same. i cried and cried. the other one that got me was when momma summers died. brilliant episode. cried and cried in that too Yes, I think "The Body" was one of the most outstanding hours of television ever created. I, also, greatly missed Tara. I wish the original plan of bringing her back had worked out as Joss intended. I remember an interview where either he, or Amber Benson, stated that there was to be an episode in Season 7 where Buffy gets a chance to make one change in the universe, to have whatever she wants - and she tells Willow she wished for this really great pair of shoes or something... and then Tara walks in. Amber Benson was supposed to appear as the spirit of Tara at the beginning of season 7, but because she and the show couldn't work things out, the story instead used another dead girl passing along Tara's message to Willow.  | |
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I still think the opening of season 7 when they did the one take of all the previous "Big Bads" morphed into the First was amazing. To get all the actors to show up and basically do like half a line of dialogue really impressed me. The Most Important Thing In Life Is Sincerity....Once You Can Fake That, You Can Fake Anything. |
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kidelrich said: sextonseven said: I started watching from the very first episode. I didn't realize it was my favorite show EVER until maybe season three. Which episode is the one where she's in a mental hospital? I wanted that one to be the final episode.  I still pretend it was and her whole life spent slaying was a fantasy.  There were episodes of worse quality than that one, but I think that is all-around the worst episode of the entire series. Completely undercuts the emotional investment you've put into buying the premise of the show and the characters. MAJOR fuck-up. | |
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kidelrich said: I find it interesting that the people here to seem to love the later seasons. I guess it depends on when you started watching. But to me, it's like saying you like the Rolling Stones now, but you don't dig their 60s/early 70s stuff. I don't get it.
I started watching the Season 4 & 5 re-runs on FX first, before S6 started. My favorite seasons are 2, 3, and 5. then 1, 4, 7, and 6. though 6 & 7 are both pretty far down there. | |
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jtfolden said: cborgman said: god, i missed the shit out of tara. willow's 7th season gf just wasn't the same. i cried and cried. the other one that got me was when momma summers died. brilliant episode. cried and cried in that too Yes, I think "The Body" was one of the most outstanding hours of television ever created. I, also, greatly missed Tara. I wish the original plan of bringing her back had worked out as Joss intended. I remember an interview where either he, or Amber Benson, stated that there was to be an episode in Season 7 where Buffy gets a chance to make one change in the universe, to have whatever she wants - and she tells Willow she wished for this really great pair of shoes or something... and then Tara walks in. oh, god, i got all misty just reading that. Power tends to corrupt; absolute power corrupts absolutely. - Lord Acton | |
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sextonseven said: I don't recall either show describing a werewolf as someone that died and had their body animated by a virus like vampires. Vampires can survive on animal blood. Why kill humans when you can survive just as well on lower life forms? Of course they can survive without human blood. But that wasn't my question. My question was; is it actually evil that they eat us or do we simply see it as such because we're the prey? Why do we humans kill cows or pigs (pigs, incidentally, being our closest genetic cousins next to apes and monkeys, as well as being one of the more intelligent non-human species. Vampire=human, human=pig)) to eat when we could survive on lower life forms like poultry, fish, or even just soybeans? Is it evil that we eat a bigger, more advanced being as opposed to a smaller, simpler one? "A Watcher scoffs at gravity!" | |
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jtfolden said: meow85 said: I was on another message board where a discussion about Interview with the Vampire was going on. Somebody actually used the term "evil, soulless thing" to refer to Lestat. Now, excuse me for geeking out here, but A) that is clearly a Jossverse term in the context it was used and therefore shouldn't have entered into a convo about a completely different story, and B) in Anne Rice's world, Vampires neither lose their souls nor become evil if turned.
I know *exactly* what you mean. Back in 2004 or so there was a lot of talk about the pilot being filmed for a Dark Shadows remake. You had a lot of the Jossverse fans going on about Barnabas Collins needing a good "demon face" and yammering on in a similar vein as to the idea of an "evil, soulless thing" there too. None of this, obviously, fits in with Dark Shadows lore where vampirism is seen as a "supernatural, yet simple blood-born and possibly curable, virus" more than anything else. Barnabas Collins certainly doesn't need to be remolded as Angel II.
[Edited 7/28/06 20:44pm] I'm not overly familiar with Barnabas Collins, but I can't stand when people mix up their fandoms like that. One vampire story does not equal another. And while Anne Rice is somewhat of a rarity in that her characters never become evil, (unless they were evil SOB's in life before. it happens. LOL) as far as I know only the Buffyverse has vamps that have a "human face" and a vamp, or "game face". "A Watcher scoffs at gravity!" | |
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Dayspring said: kidelrich said: Which episode is the one where she's in a mental hospital? I wanted that one to be the final episode. I still pretend it was and her whole life spent slaying was a fantasy. There were episodes of worse quality than that one, but I think that is all-around the worst episode of the entire series. Completely undercuts the emotional investment you've put into buying the premise of the show and the characters. MAJOR fuck-up. It was probably the only episode I thoroughly enjoyed that season. I'm not sure why it undercuts anything. | |
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Dayspring said: kidelrich said: I find it interesting that the people here to seem to love the later seasons. I guess it depends on when you started watching. But to me, it's like saying you like the Rolling Stones now, but you don't dig their 60s/early 70s stuff. I don't get it.
I started watching the Season 4 & 5 re-runs on FX first, before S6 started. My favorite seasons are 2, 3, and 5. then 1, 4, 7, and 6. though 6 & 7 are both pretty far down there.  We are very close in your appraisals of the seasons. Although, I would go 2,3,1,5,7,6 | |
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meow85 said: It was never stated in such a way on BtVS or Ats. I think you're thinking fo the Blade series, wherein a person becomes a vampire by means of a virus. Regardless, both shows DID state that werewolves are no longer human, despite their appearance. So answer my question: if by your logic Buffy beating Spike was okay because he was not human, would Willow beating Oz also be okay because he was not human. Things may not have been black and white in the Buffyverse, but I don't know that one can change the rules based on the characters, either.
It's clear that vampires are dead humans whose spirits are no longer on this plane. Werewolves are not people that have died. Simple as that. Of course they can survive without human blood. But that wasn't my question. My question was; is it actually evil that they eat us or do we simply see it as such because we're the prey?
Why do we humans kill cows or pigs (pigs, incidentally, being our closest genetic cousins next to apes and monkeys, as well as being one of the more intelligent non-human species. Vampire=human, human=pig)) to eat when we could survive on lower life forms like poultry, fish, or even just soybeans? Is it evil that we eat a bigger, more advanced being as opposed to a smaller, simpler one? I'm not a vegan so I don't consider eating animals bad. I don't know if vampires equate humans to other animal life forms, but I think a line is crossed when you kill beings that have the ability to choose between right and wrong. | |
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kidelrich said: Dayspring said: There were episodes of worse quality than that one, but I think that is all-around the worst episode of the entire series. Completely undercuts the emotional investment you've put into buying the premise of the show and the characters. MAJOR fuck-up. It was probably the only episode I thoroughly enjoyed that season. I'm not sure why it undercuts anything. It undercuts the entire series by suggesting it never happened--that all the characters, within the context of the series, never existed and therefore everything you felt for those characters was a waste of time. | |
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sextonseven said: meow85 said: It was never stated in such a way on BtVS or Ats. I think you're thinking fo the Blade series, wherein a person becomes a vampire by means of a virus. Regardless, both shows DID state that werewolves are no longer human, despite their appearance. So answer my question: if by your logic Buffy beating Spike was okay because he was not human, would Willow beating Oz also be okay because he was not human. Things may not have been black and white in the Buffyverse, but I don't know that one can change the rules based on the characters, either.
It's clear that vampires are dead humans whose spirits are no longer on this plane. Werewolves are not people that have died. Simple as that. Of course they can survive without human blood. But that wasn't my question. My question was; is it actually evil that they eat us or do we simply see it as such because we're the prey?
Why do we humans kill cows or pigs (pigs, incidentally, being our closest genetic cousins next to apes and monkeys, as well as being one of the more intelligent non-human species. Vampire=human, human=pig)) to eat when we could survive on lower life forms like poultry, fish, or even just soybeans? Is it evil that we eat a bigger, more advanced being as opposed to a smaller, simpler one? I'm not a vegan so I don't consider eating animals bad. I don't know if vampires equate humans to other animal life forms, but I think a line is crossed when you kill beings that have the ability to choose between right and wrong. I think Vamps see humans as nothing more than food, Spike pretty much says so when hes talking bout how he likes this world cause it has "happy meals on legs" also in Doppleganger the Master is pretty much making a blood extracting machine so fresh blood is always available. The Most Important Thing In Life Is Sincerity....Once You Can Fake That, You Can Fake Anything. |
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sextonseven said: kidelrich said: It was probably the only episode I thoroughly enjoyed that season. I'm not sure why it undercuts anything. It undercuts the entire series by suggesting it never happened--that all the characters, within the context of the series, never existed and therefore everything you felt for those characters was a waste of time. But it didn't happen!  | |
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kidelrich said: sextonseven said: It undercuts the entire series by suggesting it never happened--that all the characters, within the context of the series, never existed and therefore everything you felt for those characters was a waste of time. But it didn't happen! I know that. That's why I said within the context of the series. spelling edit [Edited 7/30/06 13:39pm] | |
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lazycrockett said: sextonseven said: I'm not a vegan so I don't consider eating animals bad. I don't know if vampires equate humans to other animal life forms, but I think a line is crossed when you kill beings that have the ability to choose between right and wrong. I think Vamps see humans as nothing more than food, Spike pretty much says so when hes talking bout how he likes this world cause it has "happy meals on legs" also in Doppleganger the Master is pretty much making a blood extracting machine so fresh blood is always available. Now that that question is answered, the next question is do humans see vampires as far above people as people consider themselves above animals? | |
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sextonseven said: kidelrich said: But it didn't happen! I know that. That's why I said within the conext of the series. Sorry. Didn't catch that, but it doesn't change my opinion. It's a tv show, so there is no fixed reality. It's whatever the writers decide it is. And it doesn't make a bit of difference to me if it really happened in Buffy's world or not. And I don't see why it should to anyone else. It was the only episode that offered any fresh ideas & writing for a dying show. [Edited 7/30/06 13:39pm] | |
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kidelrich said: sextonseven said: I know that. That's why I said within the conext of the series. Damn, didn't see that typo the first time around. I hate that. Sorry. Didn't catch that, but it doesn't change my opinion. It's a tv show, so there is no fixed reality. It's whatever the writers decide it is. And it doesn't make a bit of difference to me if it really happened in Buffy's world or not. And I don't see why it should to anyone else.
It was the only episode that offered any fresh ideas & writing for a dying show.  | |
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sextonseven said:[quote] kidelrich said: Damn, didn't see that typo the first time around. I hate that. Sorry. Didn't catch that, but it doesn't change my opinion. It's a tv show, so there is no fixed reality. It's whatever the writers decide it is. And it doesn't make a bit of difference to me if it really happened in Buffy's world or not. And I don't see why it should to anyone else.
It was the only episode that offered any fresh ideas & writing for a dying show. 
I still love all Buffy fans even if you're wrong. | |
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meow85 said: jtfolden said: I know *exactly* what you mean. Back in 2004 or so there was a lot of talk about the pilot being filmed for a Dark Shadows remake. You had a lot of the Jossverse fans going on about Barnabas Collins needing a good "demon face" and yammering on in a similar vein as to the idea of an "evil, soulless thing" there too. None of this, obviously, fits in with Dark Shadows lore where vampirism is seen as a "supernatural, yet simple blood-born and possibly curable, virus" more than anything else. Barnabas Collins certainly doesn't need to be remolded as Angel II.
[Edited 7/28/06 20:44pm] I'm not overly familiar with Barnabas Collins, but I can't stand when people mix up their fandoms like that. One vampire story does not equal another. And while Anne Rice is somewhat of a rarity in that her characters never become evil, (unless they were evil SOB's in life before. it happens. LOL) as far as I know only the Buffyverse has vamps that have a "human face" and a vamp, or "game face". Agreed, mixing up different "universes" like that is bad. I've been interested in vamps since a very early age (about 7 or so) and there are many different beliefs that are very set within their respective realms. People need to remember that. Also, a "complete" facial distortion or game face only occurs in Buffyverse if I recall correctly, but in quite a lot of novels/movies the eyeteeth elongate when the vamp's about to feed, and sometimes the eyes change colour. Anybody who wants to discuss vamps, feel free to orgnote me cos it's a HUGE interest of mine! 
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How bout this one, gang?
Which vampire was more deserving of Buffy & his soul? Angel or Spike? I say Spike. He wasn't given his soul; he fought for it. | |
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kidelrich said: How bout this one, gang?
Which vampire was more deserving of Buffy & his soul? Angel or Spike? I say Spike. He wasn't given his soul; he fought for it. 100% agreed, but then I'm biased cos I LUUUUURVE Spike  | |
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Teacher said: kidelrich said: How bout this one, gang?
Which vampire was more deserving of Buffy & his soul? Angel or Spike? I say Spike. He wasn't given his soul; he fought for it. 100% agreed, but then I'm biased cos I LUUUUURVE Spike Spike is the man! Er, I mean, vampire! I wanted him to get Buffy so bad. Maybe it's the unrequited thing. Ya see, I specialize in that. [Edited 7/30/06 15:32pm] | |
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kidelrich said: Teacher said: 100% agreed, but then I'm biased cos I LUUUUURVE Spike Spike is the man! Er, I mean, vampire! Ohhh yes, I always felt Angel was such a pussy right from the start.... too much a blueprint of Anne Rice's Louis, I can totally see Angel feeding on rats, wallowing in his misery like Louis did  Spike is to me the ultimate vampire, even without a soul he had more qualities.
Check my vamp page, I have a small groupie section on Spike... can't believe myself really, 32 yo and keep that shit up I'm on James's mailing list, I d/l'ed pretty much everything he's been in and check his sites regularly... I need  | |
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Teacher said: kidelrich said: Spike is the man! Er, I mean, vampire! Ohhh yes, I always felt Angel was such a pussy right from the start.... too much a blueprint of Anne Rice's Louis, I can totally see Angel feeding on rats, wallowing in his misery like Louis did Spike is to me the ultimate vampire, even without a soul he had more qualities.
Check my vamp page, I have a small groupie section on Spike... can't believe myself really, 32 yo and keep that shit up I'm on James's mailing list, I d/l'ed pretty much everything he's been in and check his sites regularly... I need He had the only song I liked in the musical episode--He rocked out!  And he was my favorite character of the last two seasons, easily. He really loved Buffy.  [Edited 7/30/06 15:41pm] | |
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kidelrich said: He had the only song I liked in the musical episode--He rocked out!
And he was my favorite character of the last two seasons, easily. He really loved Buffy.
[Edited 7/30/06 15:41pm] The fucking musical episode  I hated it but at least James can sing  He's an artist too, he even released an album called.....
wait for it.....quite ironic considering Spike..... "Civilized Man" | |
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Teacher said: kidelrich said: He had the only song I liked in the musical episode--He rocked out!
And he was my favorite character of the last two seasons, easily. He really loved Buffy.
[Edited 7/30/06 15:41pm] The fucking musical episode I hated it but at least James can sing You have just become my favorite Buffy fan on the org! 
Remember the end of The Gift? He was crying because he thought he had lost Buffy forever!  | |
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I met this girl at a party Friday night who is a huge Buffy fan. We may have a love connection. Be back in two and two. | |
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kidelrich said: Dayspring said: There were episodes of worse quality than that one, but I think that is all-around the worst episode of the entire series. Completely undercuts the emotional investment you've put into buying the premise of the show and the characters. MAJOR fuck-up. It was probably the only episode I thoroughly enjoyed that season. I'm not sure why it undercuts anything. because it breaks the suspension of disbelief that's required for any sort of sci-fi/fantasy fiction. it's a betrayal of the concept of the show's entire universe. | |
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kidelrich said: You have just become my favorite Buffy fan on the org!
Remember the end of The Gift? He was crying because he thought he had lost Buffy forever! Yay me!
 Oh do I ever, my heart breaks every time I watch that episode
The re-runs here are in season 2 now and I have to put up with bloody effing Cordy every damn episode | |
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