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Printablekidelrich said:[quote] meow85 said: Hmm....let's see...
Fave seasons: 4-6 Fave eppys: Hush, The Body, Ted, Fool for Love, Graduation, Beneath You, Band Candy Fave characters and a rant: Giles, Faith, Dru, Xander, Oz, Willow...aw hell. Pretty much everyone but Buffy herself. She may have been the title character of one of the two shows, but she bugged the shit out of me. I was ambivalent on her character for a long time, but always holding out hope that I could grow to like her. But then everything with Spike went down (so to speak. heh.) and I lost any lingering respect or like for her. Vampire or not (a soulless, evil "thing") she treated him like shit. It made me uncomfortable how, if the genders were reversed, the relationship would unarguably have been portrayed as abusive, but as is the audience is somehow supposed to empathise with Buffy and that certain situations were even played for laughs. Personally I think the attempted rape of Buffy was a play for sympathy by the writers once they realized some of the audience was not connecting with Buffy in the way they intended, as well as being an easy way to springboard the "Spike-now-has-a-soul" storyline.[/quote] I really hated that they did that to Spike's character. I never forgave them. [Edited 7/22/06 4:44am] See to me, I actually didn't see the attempted rape as being entirely out of character for Spike. This is a guy who's spent 100 years killing, and as it's implied several times on the show, raping anyone who gets in his way. This is a character that, whether you go for the Redemptionist theory on Spike or think he couldn't truly have been "Good" until he was souled, has a lengthy violent history and some serious issues with women. Freud would have a field day with William the Bloody, that's for sure. But even beyond all that, look at how he'd been treated by Buffy and the rest of the Scoobies for the past few years. When a person tries their damnedest to be good and overcome what they were (or are, he is still a vampire) and maybe even get someone to, if not like them, treat them with a bit of decency, and all their efforts are shot down. When a person is constantly reminded how they're nothing; how they're a "soulless, evil thing"; how any emotions they feel aren't real, after a while it will affect them. Hear something often enough, and you'll believe it's true. That alone constitutes psychological abuse. Add to that near nightly beatings by someone he loves and has little chance of defending himself against (physical abuse), his violent history, and the fact that the vampire nature's just not going to let him be Mr. Nice Guy all the time, no matter how he tries (ask Angel about that) then I see what Spike tried to do as a desperate person at the end of his rope. I'm not in any way condoning rape or trying to justify what Spike tried to do. If I frown on Buffy's treatment of Spike throughout the season, then I frown just as much on the attempted rape. But in terms of the character, it's not completely unrealistic IMO. I do however, feel it was a cheap move on the part of the writers, both because of the pity angle I think they were trying to play and the lame intro to Spike's soul-ing, but also because it so drastically reversed the power dynamic in the relationship, something which rarely happens in such a way in real life. "A Watcher scoffs at gravity!" | |
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meow85 said: I'm not in any way condoning rape or trying to justify what Spike tried to do. If I frown on Buffy's treatment of Spike throughout the season, then I frown just as much on the attempted rape. But in terms of the character, it's not completely unrealistic IMO. I do however, feel it was a cheap move on the part of the writers, both because of the pity angle I think they were trying to play and the lame intro to Spike's soul-ing, but also because it so drastically reversed the power dynamic in the relationship, something which rarely happens in such a way in real life. That's what I was saying. And it was entirely symptomatic of the overrall lazy writing in the show's later seasons. [Edited 7/22/06 5:50am] | |
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kidelrich said: meow85 said: I'm not in any way condoning rape or trying to justify what Spike tried to do. If I frown on Buffy's treatment of Spike throughout the season, then I frown just as much on the attempted rape. But in terms of the character, it's not completely unrealistic IMO. I do however, feel it was a cheap move on the part of the writers, both because of the pity angle I think they were trying to play and the lame intro to Spike's soul-ing, but also because it so drastically reversed the power dynamic in the relationship, something which rarely happens in such a way in real life. That's what I was saying. And it was entirely symptomatic of the overrall lazy writing in the show's later seasons. [Edited 7/22/06 5:50am] If they had stuck to a set writing team instead of playing Musical Writers for the episodes the last few seasons could've been much stronger and more coherent than they were. Frankly I'm surprised sometimes by how good it remained for the most part despite the glitches in character development and details. (You'd think that even with the rotating staff they could have a CliffsNotes version of the characters so as not to fuck up sometimes important character and plot points ) "A Watcher scoffs at gravity!" | |
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meow85 said: kidelrich said: That's what I was saying. And it was entirely symptomatic of the overrall lazy writing in the show's later seasons. [Edited 7/22/06 5:50am] If they had stuck to a set writing team instead of playing Musical Writers for the episodes the last few seasons could've been much stronger and more coherent than they were. Frankly I'm surprised sometimes by how good it remained for the most part despite the glitches in character development and details. (You'd think that even with the rotating staff they could have a CliffsNotes version of the characters so as not to fuck up sometimes important character and plot points ) The problem was the best writers kept getting bumped up to producer slots on Buffy & Angel. Marti Noxon and Jane Espenson were pretty good. | |
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kidelrich said: meow85 said: If they had stuck to a set writing team instead of playing Musical Writers for the episodes the last few seasons could've been much stronger and more coherent than they were. Frankly I'm surprised sometimes by how good it remained for the most part despite the glitches in character development and details. (You'd think that even with the rotating staff they could have a CliffsNotes version of the characters so as not to fuck up sometimes important character and plot points ) The problem was the best writers kept getting bumped up to producer slots on Buffy & Angel. Marti Noxon and Jane Espenson were pretty good. Finding a writer/producer formula that worked and sticking with it is what should have been done instead. "A Watcher scoffs at gravity!" | |
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Favorite character(s): Buffy, Spike, Tara, Drusilla
Favorite season(s): Two & Five, Seven is a good runner up Favorite episodes: Becoming Pts 1 & 2, Hush, The Body, Tough Love, numerous others Favorite villain(s): Drusilla, Angelus, Glory Favorite watcher: Wesley (More for the progression of his character through to the end of Angel S5) Least favorite episode(s): Hell's Bells and a hell of a lot of seasons Three, Four and Six Least favorite season: Four, followed by Six and Three [Edited 7/22/06 14:53pm] | |
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kidelrich said:  Why oh why did the networks not jump at a nice Faith series? 
Which episode is this shot from? | |
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meow85 said: kidelrich said: I really hated that they did that to Spike's character. I never forgave them. See to me, I actually didn't see the attempted rape as being entirely out of character for Spike. This is a guy who's spent 100 years killing, and as it's implied several times on the show, raping anyone who gets in his way. This is a character that, whether you go for the Redemptionist theory on Spike or think he couldn't truly have been "Good" until he was souled, has a lengthy violent history and some serious issues with women. Freud would have a field day with William the Bloody, that's for sure. But even beyond all that, look at how he'd been treated by Buffy and the rest of the Scoobies for the past few years. When a person tries their damnedest to be good and overcome what they were (or are, he is still a vampire) and maybe even get someone to, if not like them, treat them with a bit of decency, and all their efforts are shot down. When a person is constantly reminded how they're nothing; how they're a "soulless, evil thing"; how any emotions they feel aren't real, after a while it will affect them. Hear something often enough, and you'll believe it's true. That alone constitutes psychological abuse. Add to that near nightly beatings by someone he loves and has little chance of defending himself against (physical abuse), his violent history, and the fact that the vampire nature's just not going to let him be Mr. Nice Guy all the time, no matter how he tries (ask Angel about that) then I see what Spike tried to do as a desperate person at the end of his rope. I'm not in any way condoning rape or trying to justify what Spike tried to do. If I frown on Buffy's treatment of Spike throughout the season, then I frown just as much on the attempted rape. But in terms of the character, it's not completely unrealistic IMO. I do however, feel it was a cheap move on the part of the writers, both because of the pity angle I think they were trying to play and the lame intro to Spike's soul-ing, but also because it so drastically reversed the power dynamic in the relationship, something which rarely happens in such a way in real life. I think fans were forgetting that Spike was a vampire and therefore evil. Any good that he was doing was all because of the chip in his head. Buffy knew that and that's why she treated him like crap all the time. You can't ever really trust a vampire without a soul and this was proven again in the Angel series with Harmony. formatting edit [Edited 7/23/06 9:19am] | |
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sextonseven said: meow85 said: See to me, I actually didn't see the attempted rape as being entirely out of character for Spike. This is a guy who's spent 100 years killing, and as it's implied several times on the show, raping anyone who gets in his way. This is a character that, whether you go for the Redemptionist theory on Spike or think he couldn't truly have been "Good" until he was souled, has a lengthy violent history and some serious issues with women. Freud would have a field day with William the Bloody, that's for sure. But even beyond all that, look at how he'd been treated by Buffy and the rest of the Scoobies for the past few years. When a person tries their damnedest to be good and overcome what they were (or are, he is still a vampire) and maybe even get someone to, if not like them, treat them with a bit of decency, and all their efforts are shot down. When a person is constantly reminded how they're nothing; how they're a "soulless, evil thing"; how any emotions they feel aren't real, after a while it will affect them. Hear something often enough, and you'll believe it's true. That alone constitutes psychological abuse. Add to that near nightly beatings by someone he loves and has little chance of defending himself against (physical abuse), his violent history, and the fact that the vampire nature's just not going to let him be Mr. Nice Guy all the time, no matter how he tries (ask Angel about that) then I see what Spike tried to do as a desperate person at the end of his rope. I'm not in any way condoning rape or trying to justify what Spike tried to do. If I frown on Buffy's treatment of Spike throughout the season, then I frown just as much on the attempted rape. But in terms of the character, it's not completely unrealistic IMO. I do however, feel it was a cheap move on the part of the writers, both because of the pity angle I think they were trying to play and the lame intro to Spike's soul-ing, but also because it so drastically reversed the power dynamic in the relationship, something which rarely happens in such a way in real life. I think fans were forgetting that Spike was a vampire and therefore evil. Any good that he was doing was all because of the chip in his head. Buffy knew that and that's why she treated him like crap all the time. You can't ever really trust a vampire without a soul and this was proven again in the Angel series with Harmony. formatting edit [Edited 7/23/06 9:19am] But how can you explain protecting Dawn (some fans saw him acting as a sort of surrogate parent to her) even when Buffy was dead, and as he thought, gone forever, and bonding with Joyce? They shared hot chocolate and watched soaps together, even. Does the chip spawn domesticity as well as rendering the vamp unable to kill humans? He may not have been truly "good" yet, but some of his actions didn't seem to come from a evil place or as a way to satisfy his own wants. I don't see see how everything he did could be credited to the chip, unless the Initiative had some nutty endorphin-triggering bit of technology in his head, too. And on a related note, why is the soul seen as the end-all, be-all measure of good in the Buffyverse? Giles, Willow, Anya, and a whole litany of other characters killed humans and otherwise caused mayhem and pain and are still regarded as the good guys. Spike was a vampire, but evil? Psh. He was quasi-evil, even unsouled and unchipped. Angel with a soul is a more heartless bastard than Spike without either handicap IMO. But regardless of his status as evil or not, the way the Buffy/Spike relationship was played out by the writers bothered me. One partner is routinely physically and emotionally abused by the other. If the beaten party had been the female in the relationship and not vice versa, there would've been outrage had it not been portrayed as an abusive situation, no matter who was the "good" character and who was the "evil". "A Watcher scoffs at gravity!" | |
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meow85 said: sextonseven said: I think fans were forgetting that Spike was a vampire and therefore evil. Any good that he was doing was all because of the chip in his head. Buffy knew that and that's why she treated him like crap all the time. You can't ever really trust a vampire without a soul and this was proven again in the Angel series with Harmony. formatting edit [Edited 7/23/06 9:19am] But how can you explain protecting Dawn (some fans saw him acting as a sort of surrogate parent to her) even when Buffy was dead, and as he thought, gone forever, and bonding with Joyce? They shared hot chocolate and watched soaps together, even. Does the chip spawn domesticity as well as rendering the vamp unable to kill humans? He may not have been truly "good" yet, but some of his actions didn't seem to come from a evil place or as a way to satisfy his own wants. I don't see see how everything he did could be credited to the chip, unless the Initiative had some nutty endorphin-triggering bit of technology in his head, too. And on a related note, why is the soul seen as the end-all, be-all measure of good in the Buffyverse? Giles, Willow, Anya, and a whole litany of other characters killed humans and otherwise caused mayhem and pain and are still regarded as the good guys. Spike was a vampire, but evil? Psh. He was quasi-evil, even unsouled and unchipped. Angel with a soul is a more heartless bastard than Spike without either handicap IMO. But regardless of his status as evil or not, the way the Buffy/Spike relationship was played out by the writers bothered me. One partner is routinely physically and emotionally abused by the other. If the beaten party had been the female in the relationship and not vice versa, there would've been outrage had it not been portrayed as an abusive situation, no matter who was the "good" character and who was the "evil". I fully believe if that chip was not in his head, Spike would not have done any of those things. For the most part, he was making the best of a bad situation. You could say his handicap forced him to see these people as more than just food. I'm willing to accept that he's not a one-dimensional vampire, but his motives should still be questioned if he can't feel remorse over killing anyone. As for the abusive relationship, again one is not human, one is. If the tables were turned and say for example Wesley was abusive towards a soulless vampire like Harmony, it wouldn't have bothered me either. Vampires aren't people, they are walking animals that will kill you any chance they get. | |
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One of my all-time favorite shows! I loved it, beginning to end. Even the weaker seasons, like 4 and 6 had some great moments that kept me watching. Season 4 may have had lameness like Riley Finn, but Willow's discovery of her sexuality was handled beautifully. Season 6 got ridiculous with the villians, but "Dark Willow" was incredible (and how can you not love the bad-ass showdown between her and Giles?).
Oh, and for the record, season 5 was kick-ass! I really miss the Buffyverse. I understood ending Buffy when they did, but it made me quite sad when Angel got the axe. That show was really hitting its stride when it was cancelled. 
Do not hurry yourself in your spirit to become offended, for the taking of offense is what rests in the bosom of the stupid ones. (Ecclesiastes 7:9) | |
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sextonseven said: meow85 said: But how can you explain protecting Dawn (some fans saw him acting as a sort of surrogate parent to her) even when Buffy was dead, and as he thought, gone forever, and bonding with Joyce? They shared hot chocolate and watched soaps together, even. Does the chip spawn domesticity as well as rendering the vamp unable to kill humans? He may not have been truly "good" yet, but some of his actions didn't seem to come from a evil place or as a way to satisfy his own wants. I don't see see how everything he did could be credited to the chip, unless the Initiative had some nutty endorphin-triggering bit of technology in his head, too. And on a related note, why is the soul seen as the end-all, be-all measure of good in the Buffyverse? Giles, Willow, Anya, and a whole litany of other characters killed humans and otherwise caused mayhem and pain and are still regarded as the good guys. Spike was a vampire, but evil? Psh. He was quasi-evil, even unsouled and unchipped. Angel with a soul is a more heartless bastard than Spike without either handicap IMO. But regardless of his status as evil or not, the way the Buffy/Spike relationship was played out by the writers bothered me. One partner is routinely physically and emotionally abused by the other. If the beaten party had been the female in the relationship and not vice versa, there would've been outrage had it not been portrayed as an abusive situation, no matter who was the "good" character and who was the "evil". I fully believe if that chip was not in his head, Spike would not have done any of those things. For the most part, he was making the best of a bad situation. You could say his handicap forced him to see these people as more than just food. I'm willing to accept that he's not a one-dimensional vampire, but his motives should still be questioned if he can't feel remorse over killing anyone. As for the abusive relationship, again one is not human, one is. If the tables were turned and say for example Wesley was abusive towards a soulless vampire like Harmony, it wouldn't have bothered me either. Vampires aren't people, they are walking animals that will kill you any chance they get. Agree to disagree, I guess. I just think that had the title character been Brian the Vampire Slayer instead of a Buffy and his chipped, occasionally-comic-foil vampire been a Wendy instead of a William, (that is, the genders switched) that the relationship simply could not have been portrayed in the same way without drawing outrage. Our hero beats on his girlfriend and repeatedly verbally cuts her down, and we the audience are supposed to feel for the guy? It simply wouldn't fly, regardless of "Wendy's" vampire status. I see how the Spike/Buffy relationship was written as part of real life's problem with taking men who are abused seriously. As for your suggestion that it's okay because Spike's not human: If Willow/Oz had had a similar abusive atmosphere, would that have been okay as well? Oz wasn't human either. "A Watcher scoffs at gravity!" | |
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JediMaster said: One of my all-time favorite shows! I loved it, beginning to end. Even the weaker seasons, like 4 and 6 had some great moments that kept me watching. Season 4 may have had lameness like Riley Finn, but Willow's discovery of her sexuality was handled beautifully. Season 6 got ridiculous with the villians, but "Dark Willow" was incredible (and how can you not love the bad-ass showdown between her and Giles?).
Oh, and for the record, season 5 was kick-ass! I really miss the Buffyverse. I understood ending Buffy when they did, but it made me quite sad when Angel got the axe. That show was really hitting its stride when it was cancelled. 
R.I.P. televised Buffyverse.  "A Watcher scoffs at gravity!" | |
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meow85 said: sextonseven said: I fully believe if that chip was not in his head, Spike would not have done any of those things. For the most part, he was making the best of a bad situation. You could say his handicap forced him to see these people as more than just food. I'm willing to accept that he's not a one-dimensional vampire, but his motives should still be questioned if he can't feel remorse over killing anyone. As for the abusive relationship, again one is not human, one is. If the tables were turned and say for example Wesley was abusive towards a soulless vampire like Harmony, it wouldn't have bothered me either. Vampires aren't people, they are walking animals that will kill you any chance they get. Agree to disagree, I guess. I just think that had the title character been Brian the Vampire Slayer instead of a Buffy and his chipped, occasionally-comic-foil vampire been a Wendy instead of a William, (that is, the genders switched) that the relationship simply could not have been portrayed in the same way without drawing outrage. Our hero beats on his girlfriend and repeatedly verbally cuts her down, and we the audience are supposed to feel for the guy? It simply wouldn't fly, regardless of "Wendy's" vampire status. I see how the Spike/Buffy relationship was written as part of real life's problem with taking men who are abused seriously. As for your suggestion that it's okay because Spike's not human: If Willow/Oz had had a similar abusive atmosphere, would that have been okay as well? Oz wasn't human either. It would have been okay with me if Wendy the vampire was clearly a threat to William and had tried to kill him several times in the past. Of course it's hard to not see it in such a black and white way all the time and to humanize the characters because the actors are so great, but I'm just looking at it the way Buffy would. As for the Oz/Willow comparison, I think that's different. Werewolves aren't undead like vampires. Oz was a normal guy most of the time and he took precautions to separate himself from others during that time of the month. | |
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Two of my favorite scenes from season 7:
I think it was the episode 'Empty Places' when Xander and Willow are in Xander's hospital room after he got his eye poked out by Caleb and they are both laughing about how he can now be a pirate and have a parrot on his shoulder and Willow's laughing suddenly turns to crying. My heart sank when I saw that. From 'Potential'(?)--after Dawn realizes that she isn't one of the potential slayers, Xander comforts her and tells her that even though she's powerless it's just as important to be a witness to all these events the same way he has been for the last several years. It was great how they bonded in that way. | |
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sextonseven said: Two of my favorite scenes from season 7:
I think it was the episode 'Empty Places' when Xander and Willow are in Xander's hospital room after he got his eye poked out by Caleb and they are both laughing about how he can now be a pirate and have a parrot on his shoulder and Willow's laughing suddenly turns to crying. My heart sank when I saw that. From 'Potential'(?)--after Dawn realizes that she isn't one of the potential slayers, Xander comforts her and tells her that even though she's powerless it's just as important to be a witness to all these events the same way he has been for the last several years. It was great how they bonded in that way. Oh yeah, both of those were heartbreaking and brilliant. One cable channel is showing the entire series again, now approaching the end of season 1.    | |
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JediMaster said: Oh, and for the record, season 5 was kick-ass!
I really miss the Buffyverse. I understood ending Buffy when they did, but it made me quite sad when Angel got the axe. That show was really hitting its stride when it was cancelled. Totally agreed on all counts! I thought Season 5 was great. Glory was one of those love to hate villains, Riley was around less, we got to see Willow really start to flex her powers, "The Body" was one of the best hours of television EVER, etc... Personally, it would have been nice to see Buffy last another season or two but I have no problems with the way it went out. Angel, on the other hand, had a lot of life left in it, and even had improved ratings the last season, IIRC. I sure as heck did miss Cordelia, though.  | |
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sextonseven said: meow85 said: Agree to disagree, I guess. I just think that had the title character been Brian the Vampire Slayer instead of a Buffy and his chipped, occasionally-comic-foil vampire been a Wendy instead of a William, (that is, the genders switched) that the relationship simply could not have been portrayed in the same way without drawing outrage. Our hero beats on his girlfriend and repeatedly verbally cuts her down, and we the audience are supposed to feel for the guy? It simply wouldn't fly, regardless of "Wendy's" vampire status. I see how the Spike/Buffy relationship was written as part of real life's problem with taking men who are abused seriously. As for your suggestion that it's okay because Spike's not human: If Willow/Oz had had a similar abusive atmosphere, would that have been okay as well? Oz wasn't human either. It would have been okay with me if Wendy the vampire was clearly a threat to William and had tried to kill him several times in the past. Of course it's hard to not see it in such a black and white way all the time and to humanize the characters because the actors are so great, but I'm just looking at it the way Buffy would. As for the Oz/Willow comparison, I think that's different. Werewolves aren't undead like vampires. Oz was a normal guy most of the time and he took precautions to separate himself from others during that time of the month. Thing is, by the time Spike (or Wendy. lol) had had the chip for a while, he wasn't a threat to anyone -no moreso anyways than human Giles who has a soul but kills humans without remorse. Oz wasn't undead, but he wasn't human either. By your logic if Willow had regularly beat the crap out of him it would've been okay. As for the way Buffy looks at things; I'm not sure I could trust her judgement. This is the girl who put the entire universe in danger because she wouldn't kill Dawn. Obviously forgetting that by not killing Dawn everybody could've ended up dead, including the Lil Bit. Now we all know it turned out all right in the end regardless by way of a nifty last-minute loophole, but what a stupid risk to take. "A Watcher scoffs at gravity!" | |
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sextonseven said: Two of my favorite scenes from season 7:
I think it was the episode 'Empty Places' when Xander and Willow are in Xander's hospital room after he got his eye poked out by Caleb and they are both laughing about how he can now be a pirate and have a parrot on his shoulder and Willow's laughing suddenly turns to crying. My heart sank when I saw that. From 'Potential'(?)--after Dawn realizes that she isn't one of the potential slayers, Xander comforts her and tells her that even though she's powerless it's just as important to be a witness to all these events the same way he has been for the last several years. It was great how they bonded in that way. I especially liked this one. Xander's a superhero too, in his way.  [Edited 7/26/06 0:34am] "A Watcher scoffs at gravity!" | |
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kidelrich said:
 I guess I've underestimated this show. | |
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Faith is teh hot. "A Watcher scoffs at gravity!" | |
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Favorite character: Spike, Faith
Least favorite character: Riley Favorite season: Six (i know, i know.. but i started watching with this season. even though i had to overcome my confusion in the beginning (buffybot whaaa?) i fell in love with this series real quick. Seasons 2 and 3 are so well-liked for a reason, though) Favorite season 6 episode: Normal again, Tabula Rasa Favorite villain: Willow Favorite watcher: Giles Favorite episodes: The Body, Once More With Feeling, Wrecked, Normal again, Becoming 1 & 2 Least favorite episode: Beer Bad Least favorite season: Seven, maybe. Or four (because of Riley) Buffy truly was the best show ever created! Is anybody here watching Veronica Mars? I know, it's no Buffy but its equally well written and right now the best show I know! I hope the Americans of you would watch it more, so that it stays on air!!! We Europeans depend on you! It's really, really worth watching, especially if you liked Buffy!!carpe noctem - die nacht ist lang | |
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did you guys know there is an all day free videostream of all the buffy-episodes on winamp in the media library? it's great! carpe noctem - die nacht ist lang | |
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jtfolden said: kidelrich said: Why oh why did the networks not jump at a nice Faith series? Actually, Joss had every intention of doing a series based on Faith. The original idea is that Faith would travel the country, fighting demons and what-not, while being accompanied by the ghost of Spike. This plan fell through when Tru Calling was picked up as a series (she had filmed the pilot a while before, and she was contractually bound to the series if it was picked-up).
Do not hurry yourself in your spirit to become offended, for the taking of offense is what rests in the bosom of the stupid ones. (Ecclesiastes 7:9) | |
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5 by 5! Power tends to corrupt; absolute power corrupts absolutely. - Lord Acton | |
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meow85 said: sextonseven said: It would have been okay with me if Wendy the vampire was clearly a threat to William and had tried to kill him several times in the past. Of course it's hard to not see it in such a black and white way all the time and to humanize the characters because the actors are so great, but I'm just looking at it the way Buffy would. As for the Oz/Willow comparison, I think that's different. Werewolves aren't undead like vampires. Oz was a normal guy most of the time and he took precautions to separate himself from others during that time of the month. Thing is, by the time Spike (or Wendy. lol) had had the chip for a while, he wasn't a threat to anyone -no moreso anyways than human Giles who has a soul but kills humans without remorse. Oz wasn't undead, but he wasn't human either. By your logic if Willow had regularly beat the crap out of him it would've been okay. As for the way Buffy looks at things; I'm not sure I could trust her judgement. This is the girl who put the entire universe in danger because she wouldn't kill Dawn. Obviously forgetting that by not killing Dawn everybody could've ended up dead, including the Lil Bit. Now we all know it turned out all right in the end regardless by way of a nifty last-minute loophole, but what a stupid risk to take. Spike was still a vampire. And as for not being a threat, I haven't forgotten about the time when he turned all the scoobies against each other after he got the chip. That was a major problem that almost brought them all down. The way werewolves were portrayed in the Buffy universe, I consider them human so it wouldn't be okay if Willow abused Oz. | |
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Favorite character: Tara (i cried for hours when she was killed)
Least favorite character: Riley (bad Angel knock-off) Favorite season: 6 (evil willow storyline ROCKED) Favorite villain: Dark Willow Favorite watcher: Giles... when was there a different watcher?? Favorite episodes: The Body, Once More With Feeling, The Gift, Hush, Villains, Two to Go, Grave Least favorite episode: Primeval... Adam was a really silly and bad villan Least favorite season: 4 [Edited 7/26/06 10:26am] Power tends to corrupt; absolute power corrupts absolutely. - Lord Acton | |
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cborgman said: Favorite character: Tara (i cried for hours when she was killed)
Fantastic character. Least favorite character: Riley (bad Angel knock-off) Not even interesting enough to be an Angel knock-off. Just a bore! Favorite season: 6 (evil willow storyline ROCKED) Willow going all "Dark Phoenix" was great! Giles showing up to school her was fantastic! Favorite villain: Dark Willow She was cool! Vampire Willow was also pretty kick-ass! Favorite watcher: Giles... when was there a different watcher?? Wesley was brought in to be Buffy and Faith's Watcher. There was also a flashback of Buffy's first Watcher. Favorite episodes: The Body, Once More With Feeling, The Gift, Hush, Villains, Two to Go, Grave All great episodes!!! Least favorite episode: Primeval... Adam was a really silly and bad villian Yeah, he was pretty stupid. Least favorite season: 4 It plays better when watched all together, rather than in weekly installments. Still, it is definitely the weakest.
Do not hurry yourself in your spirit to become offended, for the taking of offense is what rests in the bosom of the stupid ones. (Ecclesiastes 7:9) | |
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JediMaster said: cborgman said: Least favorite season: 4
It plays better when watched all together, rather than in weekly installments. Still, it is definitely the weakest. One thing I liked about season four was how the scoobies combined their spirits to fight Adam at the end--Buffy's strength, Giles' knowledge, Willow's witchcraft and Xander's...whatever it is that Xander does, were all fused into Buffy to kick Adam's butt. That last fight scene was great. formatting edit [Edited 7/27/06 12:40pm] | |
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JediMaster said: cborgman said: Favorite character: Tara (i cried for hours when she was killed)
Fantastic character. Least favorite character: Riley (bad Angel knock-off) Not even interesting enough to be an Angel knock-off. Just a bore! Favorite season: 6 (evil willow storyline ROCKED) Willow going all "Dark Phoenix" was great! Giles showing up to school her was fantastic! Favorite villain: Dark Willow She was cool! Vampire Willow was also pretty kick-ass! Favorite watcher: Giles... when was there a different watcher?? Wesley was brought in to be Buffy and Faith's Watcher. There was also a flashback of Buffy's first Watcher. Favorite episodes: The Body, Once More With Feeling, The Gift, Hush, Villains, Two to Go, Grave All great episodes!!! Least favorite episode: Primeval... Adam was a really silly and bad villian Yeah, he was pretty stupid. Least favorite season: 4 It plays better when watched all together, rather than in weekly installments. Still, it is definitely the weakest. god, i missed the shit out of tara. willow's 7th season gf just wasn't the same. i cried and cried. the other one that got me was when momma summers died. brilliant episode. cried and cried in that too Power tends to corrupt; absolute power corrupts absolutely. - Lord Acton | |
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