independent and unofficial
Prince fan community
Welcome! Sign up or enter username and password to remember me
Forum jump
Forums > General Discussion > Superman Returns [possible spoliers]
« Previous topic  Next topic »
Page 5 of 5 <12345
  New topic   Printable     (Log in to 'subscribe' to this topic)
Reply #120 posted 07/06/06 6:22am

JediMaster

avatar

thesexofit said:

Yawn. These comic book blockbusters get on my last nerve. They ain't even tongue in cheek like the old action movies were in the 80's. They actually take themselves seriously so the geeks wont feel cheated.

Only good ones were the first 3 batman films, but that was because they were dark, moody and did not rely on CGI to make exiting scenes.


First off, if you don't like the comic book films, don't go see them. The "tongue in cheek" elements from the 80's action films annoyed many fans of the genre, and many of us are glad to have that element removed from these movies.

Just citing the third Batman film alone destroys any credibility you could have had. Schumacher's films were horrid abortions with day-glo sets, campy crap dialogue, dumb plots and pointless rubber nipples on the bat-suits. Everything in Batman Forever and Batman & Robin looks like rejected set pieces from a Madonna video.
jedi

Do not hurry yourself in your spirit to become offended, for the taking of offense is what rests in the bosom of the stupid ones. (Ecclesiastes 7:9)
  - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator
Reply #121 posted 07/06/06 6:27am

JediMaster

avatar

TheBatman said:

Roger Ebert summed it up pretty good:

Superman Returns

BY ROGER EBERT / June 27, 2006

It's no fun being Superman. Your life is a lie, there's nobody you can confide in, you're in love but can't express it, and you're on call 24 hours a day. But it can be fun being in a Superman movie. The original "Superman" (1978) was an exuberance of action and humor, because Christopher Reeve could play the character straight and let us know he was kidding.

"Superman II" (1980) was just about as good, but "Superman III" (1983) was a disappointment. "Superman IV: The Quest for Peace," with Reeve, bombed in 1987, and then the series was quiet for 19 years. Now the Man of Steel is back in Bryan Singer's "Superman Returns," which, like its hero, spends a lot of time dead in the water.

This is a glum, lackluster movie in which even the big effects sequences seem dutiful instead of exhilarating. The newsroom of the Daily Planet, filled with eccentricity and life in the earlier movies, now seems populated by corporate drones. Jimmy Olsen, the copy boy, such a brash kid, seems tamed and clueless. Lois Lane (Kate Bosworth) has lost her dash and pizzazz, and her fiance, Richard White (James Marsden), regards her like a deer caught in the headlights. Even the editor, Perry White (Frank Langella), comes across less like a curmudgeon, more like an efficient manager.

One problem is with the casting. Brandon Routh lacks charisma as Superman, and I suppose as Clark Kent, he isn't supposed to have any. Routh may have been cast because he looks a little like Reeve, but there are times when he looks more like an action figure; were effects used to make him seem built from synthetics? We remember the chemistry between Christopher Reeve and Margot Kidder (Lois Lane) in the original "Superman" movie, and then observe how their counterparts are tongue-tied in this one. If they had a real romance (and they did), has it left them with nothing more than wistful looks and awkward small talk?

It's strange how little dialogue the title character has in the movie. Clark Kent is monosyllabic, and Superman is microsyllabic. We learn Superman was away for five years on a mission to the remains of his home planet, Krypton. In the meantime, Lois got herself a boyfriend and a little son, played by Tristan Lake Leabu, who mostly stares at people like a beta version of Damien, the kid from "The Omen." Now Superman and (coincidentally) Clark have returned, Clark gets his old job, and Lex Luthor (Kevin Spacey) is out of prison and plotting to rule the earth.

Lex's plan: use crystals from kryptonite to raise up a new continent in the mid-Atlantic and flood most of the surface of the populated world. Then he'll own all the real estate. Location, location, location. Alas, the craggy landscape he produces couldn't be loved by a mountain goat and won't be habitable for a million years, but never mind. Spacey plays Luthor as sour and sadistic; he has no fun with the role, nor do we.

As for Superman, he's a one-trick pony. To paraphrase Archimedes: "Give me a lever and a place to stand, and I will move the universe." Superman doesn't need the lever or the place to stand, but as he positions himself in flight, straining to lift an airplane or a vast chunk or rock, we reflect that these activities aren't nearly as cinematic as what Batman and Spider-Man get up to. Watching Superman straining to hold a giant airliner, I'm wondering: Why does he strain? Does he have his limits? Would that new Airbus be too much for him? What about if he could stand somewhere?

Superman is vulnerable to one, and only one, substance: kryptonite. He knows this. We know this. Lex Luthor knows this. Yet he has been disabled by kryptonite in every one of the movies. Does he think Lex Luthor would pull another stunt without a supply on hand? Why doesn't he take the most elementary precautions? How can a middle-aged bald man stab the Man of Steel with kryptonite?

Now about Lois' kid. We know who his father is, and Lois knows, and I guess the kid knows, although he calls Richard his daddy. But why is nothing done with this character? He sends a piano flying across a room, but otherwise he just stares with big, solemn eyes, like one of those self-sufficient little brats you can't get to talk. It would have been fun to give Superman a bright, sassy child, like one of the Spy Kids, and make him a part of the plot.

There is I suppose a certain bottom line of competence in "Superman Returns," and superhero fans will want to see the movie just for its effects, its plot outrages and its moments of humor. But when the hero, his alter ego, his girlfriend and the villain all seem to lack any joy in being themselves, why should we feel joy at watching them?


rolleyes Roger Ebert? rolleyes I frequently disagree with his interps, and this review did nothing to change that.
jedi

Do not hurry yourself in your spirit to become offended, for the taking of offense is what rests in the bosom of the stupid ones. (Ecclesiastes 7:9)
  - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator
Reply #122 posted 07/06/06 7:01am

sextonseven

avatar

JediMaster said:


(point by point rebuttal to TheBatman's criticisms)


thumbs up! Couldn't have said it any better.

Now if only you and I could agree on 'Hulk'. neutral
  - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator
Reply #123 posted 07/06/06 8:22am

TheBatman

avatar

JediMaster said:

Sorry to hear that. I personally loved the movie, and my kids did too. So far, the vast majority of the comic geeks I've talked to have at least liked the film.

The movie sucked, period. But, more power to people that liked it. As a Superman aficionado since my earliest memories, this movie disgraced him imo. Bryan Singer's feeble attempt to remake the Donner films, was out of date.

This was a perfect opportunity to start from scratch, stick to the comic book roots, and make a better Superman movie, that would've toppled the great Spider-Man movies. But no. Doesn't happen.

When an animated series, can do better than a hollywood movie, something's amiss.

Get rid of Lex, the kryptonite, and anything else that doesn't revolve around Lois & Clark. Get back the the basics of what defines Superman. Admit it... this movie FAILED do that. It was a bad reinterpretation of the original movie.

Brainiac? Sure, Supes does have more than one villain in his rogues gallery, so anyone else would be a breath of fresh air.
Tell me, do you bleed? You will!
  - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator
Reply #124 posted 07/06/06 8:23am

TheBatman

avatar

P.S. Can you really count "Catwoman" as a superhero movie? I don't.
Tell me, do you bleed? You will!
  - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator
Reply #125 posted 07/06/06 8:24am

jerseykrs

TheBatman said:

P.S. Can you really count "Catwoman" as a superhero movie? I don't.

lol
  - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator
Reply #126 posted 07/06/06 8:51am

JediMaster

avatar

TheBatman said:


The movie sucked, period. But, more power to people that liked it. As a Superman aficionado since my earliest memories, this movie disgraced him imo. Bryan Singer's feeble attempt to remake the Donner films, was out of date.


Don't agree at all. I think this film paid homage to Donner's, but it wasn't a remake. It wasn't dated at all.

This was a perfect opportunity to start from scratch, stick to the comic book roots, and make a better Superman movie, that would've toppled the great Spider-Man movies. But no. Doesn't happen.


I'm glad they didn't start from scratch. Superman's origin has been done to death.

When an animated series, can do better than a hollywood movie, something's amiss.


The animated series from Timm and Dini have consitently been better than anything in the films (and, are often more consistent in quality than the comics they are based on). Superman: The Animated Series, Batman: TOS and Justice League Unlimited are the BEST adaptations of comics to another medium, PERIOD. Hollywood should take a cue from these guys, no doubt about it.

Get rid of Lex, the kryptonite, and anything else that doesn't revolve around Lois & Clark. Get back the the basics of what defines Superman. Admit it... this movie FAILED do that. It was a bad reinterpretation of the original movie.


Once again, I don't agree at all. I don't have to "admit it", because I think the movie DID get back to what defines Superman. He was presented as a larger-than-life icon, hiding behind a facade of a bumbling reporter.


Brainiac? Sure, Supes does have more than one villain in his rogues gallery, so anyone else would be a breath of fresh air.


On this we agree. I think this film HAD to have Lex in it, as he is his primary nemesis. Face it, as great as Hackman's performance was, it wasn't the evil villian from the comic. Spacey managed to bring a sense of menace to Luthor, and that needed to be seen in a Superman film. For the next movie, it needs to move beyond Lex and focus on another of Supe's rogues. Brainiac is my choice, mainly because he would lend himself well to a big-budget, effects driven blockbuster.
jedi

Do not hurry yourself in your spirit to become offended, for the taking of offense is what rests in the bosom of the stupid ones. (Ecclesiastes 7:9)
  - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator
Reply #127 posted 07/06/06 8:51am

sextonseven

avatar

TheBatman said:

Get back the the basics of what defines Superman. Admit it... this movie FAILED do that.


I must have seen a different Superman movie than you.
  - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator
Reply #128 posted 07/06/06 8:51am

JediMaster

avatar

TheBatman said:

P.S. Can you really count "Catwoman" as a superhero movie? I don't.


No, but it was, in theory, based on a comic. Sure, it was done shittily, but it technically was a "comic" movie.
jedi

Do not hurry yourself in your spirit to become offended, for the taking of offense is what rests in the bosom of the stupid ones. (Ecclesiastes 7:9)
  - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator
Reply #129 posted 07/06/06 8:56am

JediMaster

avatar

sextonseven said:

JediMaster said:


(point by point rebuttal to TheBatman's criticisms)


thumbs up! Couldn't have said it any better.


Thank you!!!

Now if only you and I could agree on 'Hulk'. neutral


Probably won't happen! I was incredibly upset by that movie. As I said earlier, it had all the right ingredients (great cast and great director), but the script was a steaming pile of poo. It has moments that I enjoy when I go back and watch it again, but overall it just didn't do it for me. All the nonsense with his father turning into Absorbing Man Jr. was just too ridiculous for my tastes.

Word is, the Abomination is the villian in the sequel! I'm sooooo down for that!
jedi

Do not hurry yourself in your spirit to become offended, for the taking of offense is what rests in the bosom of the stupid ones. (Ecclesiastes 7:9)
  - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator
Reply #130 posted 07/06/06 8:57am

sextonseven

avatar

JediMaster said:

TheBatman said:

P.S. Can you really count "Catwoman" as a superhero movie? I don't.


No, but it was, in theory, based on a comic. Sure, it was done shittily, but it technically was a "comic" movie.


Why was that movie even called 'Catwoman'? The only similarity it had with the comic book character was the name (my assumption since I didn't actually see it).
  - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator
Reply #131 posted 07/06/06 9:00am

TheBatman

avatar

sextonseven said:

TheBatman said:

Get back the the basics of what defines Superman. Admit it... this movie FAILED do that.


I must have seen a different Superman movie than you.

Nope. Just different visions of how great Superman should be.
Tell me, do you bleed? You will!
  - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator
Reply #132 posted 07/06/06 9:01am

nurse

mrdespues said:

nurse said:

What not even one Superman pic? eek




shrug




hmmm NO
  - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator
Reply #133 posted 07/06/06 9:02am

JediMaster

avatar

sextonseven said:

JediMaster said:



No, but it was, in theory, based on a comic. Sure, it was done shittily, but it technically was a "comic" movie.


Why was that movie even called 'Catwoman'? The only similarity it had with the comic book character was the name (my assumption since I didn't actually see it).


I don't think too many people did see it, as it was obvious from the previews that it had nothing to do with the comic. Many folks on comic boards refer to it as "CINO" (Catwoman In Name Only).
jedi

Do not hurry yourself in your spirit to become offended, for the taking of offense is what rests in the bosom of the stupid ones. (Ecclesiastes 7:9)
  - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator
Reply #134 posted 07/06/06 9:07am

TheBatman

avatar

JediMaster said:

I'm glad they didn't start from scratch. Superman's origin has been done to death.

I personally wasn't talking about his origin's. They have been done to death.

I was talking about a movie based on his comic roots, not the old movies. The Superman movie franchise of the late 70's and 80's, were not based on the comics. They were a completely separate entity, that changed the character's roots.

Spider-Man and his movies are extremely succesful, because they stuck the source and root of the character. The Superman movies did not.

I'm not saying the old Superman movies were bad, they were pretty good for the time. But in 2006, people should be well past that. This movie should've put him in his proper place, and doesn't. How anyone cannot see that is beyond me.
Tell me, do you bleed? You will!
  - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator
Reply #135 posted 07/06/06 11:33am

JediMaster

avatar

TheBatman said:

JediMaster said:

I'm glad they didn't start from scratch. Superman's origin has been done to death.

I personally wasn't talking about his origin's. They have been done to death.

I was talking about a movie based on his comic roots, not the old movies. The Superman movie franchise of the late 70's and 80's, were not based on the comics. They were a completely separate entity, that changed the character's roots.

Spider-Man and his movies are extremely succesful, because they stuck the source and root of the character. The Superman movies did not.

I'm not saying the old Superman movies were bad, they were pretty good for the time. But in 2006, people should be well past that. This movie should've put him in his proper place, and doesn't. How anyone cannot see that is beyond me.


Well, with a character like Superman, that is almost a moot point. Superman has a much longer history that Spider-Man, and several different continuities. Superman has been re-booted several times, and as such, fans differentiate between the eras as if he were a different character. The Golden Age Superman is a completely different character than the Silver Age Superman (so much so that DC comics made the GA Supes the Superman of "Earth 2", while the SA Supes resided on "Earth 1". In a recent story, the GA Superman was killed, fighting side by side with the modern incarnation). The modern version of Superman is a combination of all of the previous incarnations, including Donner's.

It's true that Donner's film departed from the comics on some points, but the core of the character was true to the comic version. Sure, Donner introduced the Kryptonian crystals, and other such trappings, but these were aesthetic more than anything. Since that time, many of Donner's additions have been retconned into comics continuity (yup, even the crystals).

In the end, what is the root of the character? As I see it, in all of his incarnations, he's been an iconic, larger-than-life figure. He embodies the concept of doing what is right, and using your gifts to aid your fellow man. He is a refugee from a doomed world, who works to make his adopted home a better place. He was raised by a midwestern, typical American family, who instilled the virtues and morality of that area into him. This is consistent in all of his comic incarnations, as well as the films, TV series, radio dramas, Saturday morning serials and cartoons.

The Superman of Donner's film had all these qualities, as did the Superman of Singer's film. His "comic roots" are most certainly there. It may be missing some of the minutia from certain time periods, but that is to be expected. You can't really expect to see Krypto the Superdog or Beppo the Supermonkey making appearances. The things that are central to who Superman is are intact, and that is what matters to me.
jedi

Do not hurry yourself in your spirit to become offended, for the taking of offense is what rests in the bosom of the stupid ones. (Ecclesiastes 7:9)
  - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator
Reply #136 posted 07/17/06 4:28am

RONNYRON

avatar

Well, despite the fact that some of us liked it, and some didn't, the numbers don't lie - SUPERMAN RETURNS is officially a FLOP in North America and will be struggling to break even on the international scene, b4 DVD $ales of course (I'll be doing my part by buying the inevitable Special Edition).

Production Budget - $260 million

Domestic: $163,648,000
+ Foreign: $ 35,800,000
= Worldwide: $199,448,000



sad



p.s. Pirates of The Carribean 2 sucks ass (IMHO) and yet is destroying the box office - go figure... shrug
[Edited 7/17/06 4:30am]
  - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator
Reply #137 posted 07/17/06 8:01am

illimack

avatar

RONNYRON said:

Well, despite the fact that some of us liked it, and some didn't, the numbers don't lie - SUPERMAN RETURNS is officially a FLOP in North America and will be struggling to break even on the international scene, b4 DVD $ales of course (I'll be doing my part by buying the inevitable Special Edition).

Production Budget - $260 million

Domestic: $163,648,000
+ Foreign: $ 35,800,000
= Worldwide: $199,448,000



sad



p.s. Pirates of The Carribean 2 sucks ass (IMHO) and yet is destroying the box office - go figure... shrug
[Edited 7/17/06 4:30am]



I don't get this either. I loved Superman and have already seen it twice. I missed the ending of Pirates and could not see myself sitting through the entire movie again to watch the part that I missed. I don't get all the Pirate hoopla, but I think when it comes down to it, people think Superman is corny and Pirates is the "cooler" movie.
**************************************************

Pull ya cell phone out and call yo next of kin...we 'bout to get funky......2,3 come on ya'll
  - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator
Reply #138 posted 07/17/06 9:00am

TheBatman

avatar

illimack said:

I don't get all the Pirate hoopla, but I think when it comes down to it, people think Superman is corny and Pirates is the "cooler" movie.

No, mostpeople don't think he's corny. It boils down to what I have been saying since my first post... Superman didn't have a good story.

Pirates = Good, well written story!

Superman = Crap written story, rehashing the original!

If They would've taken a fresh approach to Supes, tapped some real talent like Bruce Timm, Paul Dini, or Aless Ross to develop a great story... Superman would've been a huge success, bigger than Spider-Man.

I say string Bryan Singer up.
Tell me, do you bleed? You will!
  - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator
Reply #139 posted 07/17/06 11:00am

OdysseyMiles

I dug it. shrug
  - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator
Reply #140 posted 07/17/06 11:03am

TMPletz

TheBatman said:

illimack said:

I don't get all the Pirate hoopla, but I think when it comes down to it, people think Superman is corny and Pirates is the "cooler" movie.

No, mostpeople don't think he's corny. It boils down to what I have been saying since my first post... Superman didn't have a good story.

Pirates = Good, well written story!

Superman = Crap written story, rehashing the original!

If They would've taken a fresh approach to Supes, tapped some real talent like Bruce Timm, Paul Dini, or Aless Ross to develop a great story... Superman would've been a huge success, bigger than Spider-Man.

I say string Bryan Singer up.


  - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator
Reply #141 posted 07/17/06 11:14am

sextonseven

avatar

OdysseyMiles said:

I dug it. shrug


I thought it was one of the top 5 best superhero movies ever.
  - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator
Reply #142 posted 07/20/06 12:27am

Sdldawn

  - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator
Page 5 of 5 <12345
  New topic   Printable     (Log in to 'subscribe' to this topic)
« Previous topic  Next topic »
Forums > General Discussion > Superman Returns [possible spoliers]