purplerein said:

.....BUT! I also believe that both types of ppl are just as brave. The ones that grin and bare it, and the ones brave enough to go.
[Edited 6/27/06 11:20am]

luv4all7 said:

Insanity is banging your head against the wall and having it hurt, but continuing
to do it, because you expect a different outcome

NDRU said:

Me too, almost 2 yrs now, and I'm 20lbs heavier than when I smoked. But I know I can always lose 20 lbs! Congrats!

luv4all7 said:

Martyrism is not being brave, imho.

Grinning and baring it is by far the most destructive thing one can do, especially if there are children involved. Basically what that does is teach your kids that no matter how bad a situation might be, you are not simply just worth getting out of it.

If one is not willing to put their own emotional well being first, than at least put that of your children first.

purplerein said:

.....I see, but that's out of context.

luv4all7 said:

Congratulations! About a year and a half for me. But I also quit smoking pot almost 4 years ago, something which in part caused me to pick up the cigarettes again. So these past 18 months have been my first truly smoke free in about ten years!

NDRU said:

I quit smokin' weed when I started havin' babies, quitting smoking nicotine was harder for me.....

luv4all7 said:

it's not out of context. to grin and bear it, without doing anything about it, is...not sane

luv4all7 said:

Cigarettes I could always take or leave, but weed was like a religion to me...

purplerein said:

Do you feel there is a stage or a pattern ppl go through b4 they throw in the towel and say enough is enough? Or do u think some ppl r just crazy, I mean why else would someone choose to stay somewhere if they didn't think it was best 4 their kids.....who would do that?

NDRU said:

Yeah, it is kinda like a religion I guess. When I quit smokin weed, I had to quit hangin' out w/a lot of old friends.

luv4all7 said:

I feel there's a stage at which both partners try to work on fixing things. if that doesn't work, they've tried their best. then they can split saying, I gave it my all. For one person decide they don't want to work on it, should be a message to the other person, that their feelings and happiness don't matter. At that point, the kids can't be happy if mom and dad arent..

JustErin said:

You're so smart.

My parents stayed together "for the children" but it was always painfully obvious that my dad was miserable and resented us, not to mention I got a skewed view of how relationships were supposed to be. I had to learn how to be affectionate as an adult.

My parents didn't work on the relationship, though, they just stayed together (eventually divorcing once the kids were out of the house. Now they're both much happier). Maybe if they (my dad) was willing to work at it it might have worked, but that was never going to happen.
[Edited 6/27/06 11:40am]

luv4all7 said:

People just do what they feel is the best thing to do at that time. I certainly undertand that. People are just doing the best they can. They are not crazy, they just do not believe that they are worth being happy. I find it so sad.

Plus, often people can not see the bigger picture. It's like when people say "I don't wanna put my kids thru a divorce" when in actuality keeping them in a disfunctional household is far worse. A short period of heartache and adjustment is far better than a lifetime of unhappiness.

JustErin said:

crazy props for you Erin...you're very smart

NDRU said:

Thanks.

I too grew up in a very unhappy household and when I would ask my mom about it she would always tell me that she was staying for us.

As a result, I basically got into relationships that were like the one my parents had and I would stay and be miserable...until finally one day I cracked.

My mom now realizes that she made a huge mistake in staying...but she has still not left my father. Now that all her children are gone she uses the excuse of "well, I'm almost 60, where am I gonna go, what am I gonna do?"

It breaks my heart.

JustErin said:

This is what I believe, but my girlfriend disagrees, and yes her parents divorced when she was young.

I think I'd have had a much better relationship with my dad if he'd left like he wanted to, and the house wouldn't have felt so cold all the time.

purplerein said:

Thanks.

See, I'm not always a goofball.

JustErin said:

I only know what I've seen. And I've seen a lot of ugly divorces.....I have 3 sis n laws, ALL divorced, ALL w/kids that are FAR from how I want my kids to be.

My parents were together till my dad died. They did their share of fighting, there were times I remember crying in my room cuz they were screaming at eachother, but I HAVE A LOT of happy memories, and I'm GLAD they stayed together. I'm glad I didn't have to pick btw. them.

And I could NEVER imagine my kids having to do that, OR having to wonder what they're doing over Daddy's house on Daddy's wkend. I COULD NOT be w/out my kids for a wkend while they visit their dad.

I'm glad it works out for some. I;m not bashing divorcees, AT ALL. Just stating what I've witnessed.

JustErin said:

just in your choice in men. named Jersey

purplerein said:

JustErin said:

Sorry. Tell her both my parents found relationships after 60. My mother had given up on guys after the divorce (she had wanted to work it out), but eventually things changed and she's with a nice guy.

My grandmother got re-married at 80!

luv4all7 said:

I think, for the most part, the terms "stage" and "pattern" are not applicable in the scenario being discussed.

As for the reason/s why one would choose to stay in a situation that, whether one admits to it or not, is bad for their children can either be very complex -- or very, very simple.

Some truly believe that keeping the family unit intact, no matter what, is "best" for the children.

Some religions forbid divorce and the deeply religious will not go against that dictate.

Some are just too afraid to ultimately make that final big step of actually leaving - they believe in the adage 'the devil you know is better than the one you don't'.

Some are too lazy to be willing to take upon themselves the myraid new responsibilities and major life changes inherent to being alone, and/or being a single parent.

Some are merely too selfish to change their lifestyle to that of 'single parent' and all the ramifications that being such entails.

luv4all7 said:

Oh yes, I certainly agree. There are many ugly divorces but there is something to be said about maturity.

A lot of the time people are furious and bitter when a marriage ends and it becomes more about getting back at the one that hurt them than it does about what is best for everyone. They use their children as pawns, make them choose between them and all that horrible stuff.

But, you know, one can rise above all that childish behaviour. Again, it comes back to self-worth and happiness. When you are happy, you make good, wise decisions. You do not become clouded in all the bad feelings that create such chaos and unhappiness...not just for yourself, but for everyone around you.

There are many happy children of divorce, but it's always when their parents are happy themselves and have been able to get passed a relationship ending...because, that's all it really was - a relationship.

This is all so much easier said than done, of course, but I truly believe that it can be done. You have to be strong, you have to realize that NOTHING is worth making your life miserable.

Good God, I should write a book.

NDRU said:

I've tried. I've told her that I would be there to help her get on her feet and do anything I can but she is not going to ever leave. I know this.

She also now has the excuse that my father had a brain aneurysm a few years ago that left him mentally impaired to a certain degree. She now feels that he is her responsibility.

WillyWonka said:

i agree

JustErin said:

Well, this goes back to my original post about believing in it. Seems you mom believes in marriage, for better or worse. I guess that's her choice. At least you're not a kid anymore, subjected to it without any choice of your own.

NDRU said:

Actually, she is now very anti-marriage.

She's just afraid.

luv4all7 said:

mayb he thinks if he tells u that often enough
then u will start believeing it

See what you make me do

Itch said:

That would be the more evil motivation. Probably more people just use that kind of deflection as a defensive mechanism. It takes maturity to own up to your problems, and if someone attacks you or accuses you of something the instinct is to fight/argue back.
[Edited 6/27/06 13:31pm]