Itch said:

hilarious! Not only am I a man, but I'm not married. If Spats could comprehend what he reads, he'd see I said IF you both believe in marriage, and you BOTH work at it.

But if you're with a person like Spats, it's never going to last because he wants a fantasy, not reality. In that case I'd adopt his attitude of "dump the loser, it's never going to work."

luv4all7 said:

Talk is cheap.

The facts is that, if one realizes one has a particular problem and recognizes the need to address said problem and correct it and honestly, sincerely has the desire to do so, one will do so - or at least put forth their best efforts to do so. Period.

As for how it takes to actually correct a problem or problem behaviour is impossible to answer - there are too many variables, and no one outside the couple in question knows the two parties involved nor the entire situation well enough to give a definitive answer as to how long it "should" take to resolve an issue. There are no 'rules' for this kind of thing.

The real question should be: how long does the second party stand by and accept lip service from the first party? If one sees, time and again, that there are only empty promises being made yet no actions taking place (and even, continuing bad behaviour despite the promises) then the onus is on the second party to finally decide how long to wait and continue accepting the situation as is before choosing another course of action.

WillyWonka said:

excellent points

So, how do y'all feel about the following phrase.....

"You make me this way" or "See what you make me do".

How much do you feel a person can cause another person actions?

luv4all7 said:

looks like projection to me

projecting thoughts ( blame ) on the other ... like looking in a mirror

this person needs to learn that NO ONE is to blame for your actions other then the self

again, seems to lack maturity and elements of honesty

it's the lazy / easy way out to blame others

Mach said:

Do you think these people actually genuinley believe it's the other persons fault though?

Mach said:

Precisely.

Blaming others for one's behaviour is manipulative and shows emotional immaturity and a lack of a sense of responsibility for the consequences of one's own actions.

It is next to impossible to have a healthy, successful relationship with such a personality.

People do not change. They might change their behaviour for a bit or even for the long run, but they will never change who they truly are. Who are we to tell someone else what they should do or who they should be?

The rule of thumb for me is...if you are the one that is unhappy, you are the one that needs to make a change. Don't ever expect the other person to change to make you happy.

WillyWonka said:

I agree with this. Admitting the probem may just be a way to avoid doing the work of changing.

I don't think you can expect change either. If you can't deal with it now, you can't necessarily assume that it will ever change. Certain behaviors/habits can change, but to some extent people either need to be accepted as is or not accepted at all.

JustErin said:

Hey, I just wrote almost the same thing!

luv4all7 said:

You cannot make another person feel one way, or another.

what a person does with what is said or done, is entirely on them. That is of course, different from my saying, jeez that haircut looks ugly. That statement is made intentionally to hurt your feelings.

"you make me feel this way" or See what you make me do" is avoidance of personal responsibility, and as others have said, an attempt to put something off onto you

luv4all7 said:

A child likely would truly believe that others are to blame for their own actions, choices, behaviour, etc.

However, an adult who has not evolved past that infantile mentality needs to seek help - they will be unable to sustain any kind of healthy interpersonal relationship(s) otherwise.

NDRU said:

I saw that. You said it so much better though.

JustErin said:

you don't think people can change with therapy?

luv4all7 said:

NO !
[Edited 6/27/06 10:58am]

Itch said:

Really? So you don't think there are ppl w/problems that they seriously believe that their partner causes? So they are lying when they say that?

purplerein said:

In some ways, yes. They can change patterns or behaviour, but who they are at the core will never change.

I've grown as a person as I have aged and had more experiences in life, but I am still exactly the same person I have always been. Both the good and bad.

I think that therapy could help if you are simply working on yourself, but I really don't think that relationship therapy works. Both people have to be committed to take a good hard look at themselves, not the relationship...and let's face it, most people are not willing to take that good hard look in the mirror.

[quote]

JustErin said:

I actually LOVE learning about myself and what makes me the way I am, I find it very interesting. I think other ppl are just scared of what they will find out.
[Edited 6/27/06 11:05am]

luv4all7 said:

No, all decisions in life are yours to make. If you choose to be with someone that makes YOU unhappy, that is your problem not theirs.

Does that make sense?

JustErin said:

It makes sense, not sure if I agree though..... I love ya anyway though!

JustErin said:

bullseye!!!

This thread is far too serious to hold my interest.

purplerein said:

So y'all think that even though you took a vow, if u r not happy, that's your problem, just pack it in?

jerseykrs said:

I know honey, the retard thread was more your speed huh?

luv4all7 said:

if BOTH people in the marriage made an effort to make things better and couldn't it's one thing.
but yes, cut your losses and look for true happiness

luv4all7 said:

luv4all7 said:

Well, I don't see it as "packing it in" or giving up. I look at it as being brave enough and strong enough to take care of yourself and your emotional well being - which I strongly believe is the root of all happiness in life.

JustErin said:

Gotcha!

luv4all7 said:

I truly hope so

JustErin said:

Again, I agree. I quit smoking, but I'm still the same person. Certain behaviors can change, and therapy can help you recognize patterns, but you'll still be yourself (and it would be really scary if your partner completely changed, wouldn't it!)

Like you said, if you're unhappy with a relationship, the only change you can really count on is the one you make yourself, either an acceptance of the other person, or moving on with your life.