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Printablesag10 said: I have seen many a woman and even men play the victim.
I am not sure I fully understand the whys of it.. But I agree that it becomes a part of their lives, and they just do not know how to break the cycle. I find it hard to be around them. I truly was a victim as a child, and it was my choice to find my way to becoming the survivor, and to live a healthy life. Dr. Laura has a book out called Bad Childhood, Good Life. Good read for growth. no dr. laura for me... she may have a good point about those topics, but i would rather live my miserable childhood over than listen to her. Power tends to corrupt; absolute power corrupts absolutely. - Lord Acton | |
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cborgman said: sag10 said: I have seen many a woman and even men play the victim.
I am not sure I fully understand the whys of it.. But I agree that it becomes a part of their lives, and they just do not know how to break the cycle. I find it hard to be around them. I truly was a victim as a child, and it was my choice to find my way to becoming the survivor, and to live a healthy life. Dr. Laura has a book out called Bad Childhood, Good Life. Good read for growth. no dr. laura for me... she may have a good point about those topics, but i would rather live my miserable childhood over than listen to her. Me too!  2010: Healing the Wounds of the Past.... http://prince.org/msg/8/325740 | |
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sag10 said: I have seen many a woman and even men play the victim.
I am not sure I fully understand the whys of it.. But I agree that it becomes a part of their lives, and they just do not know how to break the cycle. I find it hard to be around them. I truly was a victim as a child, and it was my choice to find my way to becoming the survivor, and to live a healthy life. Dr. Laura has a book out called Bad Childhood, Good Life. Good read for growth. Love YOU, but hate Dr. Laura. 
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cborgman said: sag10 said: I have seen many a woman and even men play the victim.
I am not sure I fully understand the whys of it.. But I agree that it becomes a part of their lives, and they just do not know how to break the cycle. I find it hard to be around them. I truly was a victim as a child, and it was my choice to find my way to becoming the survivor, and to live a healthy life. Dr. Laura has a book out called Bad Childhood, Good Life. Good read for growth. no dr. laura for me... she may have a good point about those topics, but i would rather live my miserable childhood over than listen to her. I understand.. I don't listen to her I am always looking for books, and happened to come across hers.. ^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^
Being happy doesn't mean that everything is perfect, it means you've decided to look beyond the imperfections... unknown | |
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HAH, 3 "I hate Dr. Laura" posts at 2:06!!
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AnotherLoverToo said: sag10 said: I have seen many a woman and even men play the victim.
I am not sure I fully understand the whys of it.. But I agree that it becomes a part of their lives, and they just do not know how to break the cycle. I find it hard to be around them. I truly was a victim as a child, and it was my choice to find my way to becoming the survivor, and to live a healthy life. Dr. Laura has a book out called Bad Childhood, Good Life. Good read for growth. Love YOU, but hate Dr. Laura.
Love you back!  ^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^
Being happy doesn't mean that everything is perfect, it means you've decided to look beyond the imperfections... unknown | |
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AnotherLoverToo said: HAH, 3 "I hate Dr. Laura" posts at 2:06!!
poor sag just got clusterfucked on that one, and she doesnt like her either Power tends to corrupt; absolute power corrupts absolutely. - Lord Acton | |
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cborgman said: AnotherLoverToo said: HAH, 3 "I hate Dr. Laura" posts at 2:06!!
poor sag just got clusterfucked on that one, and she doesnt like her either As they say, even a broken clock is right twice a day, so perhaps Dr. Laura has an occasional lucid moment! | |
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cborgman said: AnotherLoverToo said: HAH, 3 "I hate Dr. Laura" posts at 2:06!!
poor sag just got clusterfucked on that one, and she doesnt like her either Ohhhhh, I like that word clusterfucked! Sounds frickin' kinky.  ^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^
Being happy doesn't mean that everything is perfect, it means you've decided to look beyond the imperfections... unknown | |
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sag10 said: cborgman said:
poor sag just got clusterfucked on that one, and she doesnt like her either Ohhhhh, I like that word clusterfucked! Sounds frickin' kinky. I think "ClusterFuck" sounds like a candybar: chocolate with clusters of nuts.  | |
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AnotherLoverToo said: sag10 said: Ohhhhh, I like that word clusterfucked! Sounds frickin' kinky. I think "ClusterFuck" sounds like a candybar: chocolate with clusters of nuts. Cluster of nuts is good! ^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^
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AnotherLoverToo said: cborgman said:
poor sag just got clusterfucked on that one, and she doesnt like her either As they say, even a broken clock is right twice a day, so perhaps Dr. Laura has an occasional lucid moment!
true. i just hate hate hate the woman, and as chauvenistic and homophobic as she is, i really dont trust her to be advising people who make up a large portion of the abused in childhood demorgraphic about how to heal. Power tends to corrupt; absolute power corrupts absolutely. - Lord Acton | |
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sag10 said: cborgman said:
poor sag just got clusterfucked on that one, and she doesnt like her either Ohhhhh, I like that word clusterfucked! Sounds frickin' kinky.  Power tends to corrupt; absolute power corrupts absolutely. - Lord Acton | |
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cborgman said: AnotherLoverToo said: As they say, even a broken clock is right twice a day, so perhaps Dr. Laura has an occasional lucid moment!
true. i just hate hate hate the woman, and as chauvenistic and homophobic as she is, i really dont trust her to be advising people who make up a large portion of the abused in childhood demorgraphic about how to heal. Me, either..However, I thought it might be an interesting read. ^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^
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cborgman said: sag10 said: Ohhhhh, I like that word clusterfucked! Sounds frickin' kinky.  You put that tongue back in your mouth!  ^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^
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sag10 said: cborgman said:
true. i just hate hate hate the woman, and as chauvenistic and homophobic as she is, i really dont trust her to be advising people who make up a large portion of the abused in childhood demorgraphic about how to heal. Me, either..However, I thought it might be an interesting read. now i am curious about it though Power tends to corrupt; absolute power corrupts absolutely. - Lord Acton | |
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I don't think just deciding on becoming a "survivor" is a strategy that works on its own right at all. Who knows, maybe it has worked for others but it certainly never worked for me in the long run. The trouble I see there is that people attempt to place the emphasis on the construction process of their subjectivity as an identity first, not as a pure functional being. What scars people most in their lives is not their overall negative "approach in life", but not being able to take care of their everyday chores or social relations in a satisfying manner. This means to me that the starting points are always individual tasks that are required to be performed. Maybe "winners" had the survivor mentality in the first place, but anybody who's ever achieved their goals didn't do so because of their outlook in their life but because they actually went to do those things and for one reason or another succeeded in them.
"You look so unhappy. Try smiling some more!", "Okay I'm smiling now. Is this what happiness is supposed to feel like?" | |
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Novabreaker said: I don't think just deciding on becoming a "survivor" is a strategy that works on its own right at all. Who knows, maybe it has worked for others but it certainly never worked for me in the long run. The trouble I see there is that people attempt to place the emphasis on the construction process of their subjectivity as an identity first, not as a pure functional being. What scars people most in their lives is not their overall negative "approach in life", but not being able to take care of their everyday chores or social relations in a satisfying manner. This means to me that the starting points are always individual tasks that are required to be performed. Maybe "winners" had the survivor mentality in the first place, but anybody who's ever achieved their goals didn't do so because of their outlook in their life but because they actually went to do those things and for one reason or another succeeded in them.
"You look so unhappy. Try smiling some more!", "Okay I'm smiling now. Is this what happiness is supposed to feel like?" Excellent point, IMO. The old-school social work ideal for helping the 'underpriviledged' was all about GIVING people things and doing for them. The newer philosophy is all about people learning how to do it themselves in order to promote independence and self-esteem.
It's uncomfortable and scary to do something for the first time--but the "high" from the pride of accomplishment is something that just can't be described.  | |
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Novabreaker said: I don't think just deciding on becoming a "survivor" is a strategy that works on its own right at all. Who knows, maybe it has worked for others but it certainly never worked for me in the long run. The trouble I see there is that people attempt to place the emphasis on the construction process of their subjectivity as an identity first, not as a pure functional being. What scars people most in their lives is not their overall negative "approach in life", but not being able to take care of their everyday chores or social relations in a satisfying manner. This means to me that the starting points are always individual tasks that are required to be performed. Maybe "winners" had the survivor mentality in the first place, but anybody who's ever achieved their goals didn't do so because of their outlook in their life but because they actually went to do those things and for one reason or another succeeded in them.
"You look so unhappy. Try smiling some more!", "Okay I'm smiling now. Is this what happiness is supposed to feel like?" it isn't something that can be forced on peopel, and it isn't for everyone. when something bad hits, i just try to stay calm and emotionally even untill my brain processes it, and says "shit, that's nothign. you have survived much worshe things in your life, why get upset over something so small and trivial?" Power tends to corrupt; absolute power corrupts absolutely. - Lord Acton | |
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AnotherLoverToo said: Novabreaker said: I don't think just deciding on becoming a "survivor" is a strategy that works on its own right at all. Who knows, maybe it has worked for others but it certainly never worked for me in the long run. The trouble I see there is that people attempt to place the emphasis on the construction process of their subjectivity as an identity first, not as a pure functional being. What scars people most in their lives is not their overall negative "approach in life", but not being able to take care of their everyday chores or social relations in a satisfying manner. This means to me that the starting points are always individual tasks that are required to be performed. Maybe "winners" had the survivor mentality in the first place, but anybody who's ever achieved their goals didn't do so because of their outlook in their life but because they actually went to do those things and for one reason or another succeeded in them.
"You look so unhappy. Try smiling some more!", "Okay I'm smiling now. Is this what happiness is supposed to feel like?" Excellent point, IMO. The old-school social work ideal for helping the 'underpriviledged' was all about GIVING people things and doing for them. The newer philosophy is all about people learning how to do it themselves in order to promote independence and self-esteem.
It's uncomfortable and scary to do something for the first time--but the "high" from the pride of accomplishment is something that just can't be described. very true. Power tends to corrupt; absolute power corrupts absolutely. - Lord Acton | |
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cborgman said: Novabreaker said: I don't think just deciding on becoming a "survivor" is a strategy that works on its own right at all. Who knows, maybe it has worked for others but it certainly never worked for me in the long run. The trouble I see there is that people attempt to place the emphasis on the construction process of their subjectivity as an identity first, not as a pure functional being. What scars people most in their lives is not their overall negative "approach in life", but not being able to take care of their everyday chores or social relations in a satisfying manner. This means to me that the starting points are always individual tasks that are required to be performed. Maybe "winners" had the survivor mentality in the first place, but anybody who's ever achieved their goals didn't do so because of their outlook in their life but because they actually went to do those things and for one reason or another succeeded in them.
"You look so unhappy. Try smiling some more!", "Okay I'm smiling now. Is this what happiness is supposed to feel like?" it isn't something that can be forced on peopel, and it isn't for everyone. when something bad hits, i just try to stay calm and emotionally even untill my brain processes it, and says "shit, that's nothign. you have survived much worshe things in your life, why get upset over something so small and trivial?" it gets to u after a while though.. the smallest details can can be seen in several different contexts and the people around also have such a different set of ideas that what seems like something harmless escalates to an out of control issue that takes some time to smooth out | |
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Novabreaker said: I don't think just deciding on becoming a "survivor" is a strategy that works on its own right at all. Who knows, maybe it has worked for others but it certainly never worked for me in the long run. The trouble I see there is that people attempt to place the emphasis on the construction process of their subjectivity as an identity first, not as a pure functional being. What scars people most in their lives is not their overall negative "approach in life", but not being able to take care of their everyday chores or social relations in a satisfying manner. This means to me that the starting points are always individual tasks that are required to be performed. Maybe "winners" had the survivor mentality in the first place, but anybody who's ever achieved their goals didn't do so because of their outlook in their life but because they actually went to do those things and for one reason or another succeeded in them.
"You look so unhappy. Try smiling some more!", "Okay I'm smiling now. Is this what happiness is supposed to feel like?" Well Yes, I think that is really fuckin bizarre when people walk up to you and you are standing by yourself and they ask "why aren't you smiling". Well gee, I'm by myself so what would it mean that I'm alone and smiling like a lunatic
"Surviving" takes action. It took me 11 years to finally become a survivor from my past. It wasn't until I took it on head first that I found I was not over it and I worked to make myself a survivor and get past it for real. 2010: Healing the Wounds of the Past.... http://prince.org/msg/8/325740 | |
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Novabreaker said: I don't think just deciding on becoming a "survivor" is a strategy that works on its own right at all. Who knows, maybe it has worked for others but it certainly never worked for me in the long run. The trouble I see there is that people attempt to place the emphasis on the construction process of their subjectivity as an identity first, not as a pure functional being. What scars people most in their lives is not their overall negative "approach in life", but not being able to take care of their everyday chores or social relations in a satisfying manner. This means to me that the starting points are always individual tasks that are required to be performed. Maybe "winners" had the survivor mentality in the first place, but anybody who's ever achieved their goals didn't do so because of their outlook in their life but because they actually went to do those things and for one reason or another succeeded in them.
"You look so unhappy. Try smiling some more!", "Okay I'm smiling now. Is this what happiness is supposed to feel like?" Well becoming a survivor for me meant alot of things.. Finding the right therapist, and a determination to set my life on the right path, and not letting the scars get in the way of my future, my ability to love, or to be loved. And, I must say I did a damned good job. ^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^
Being happy doesn't mean that everything is perfect, it means you've decided to look beyond the imperfections... unknown | |
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AnotherLoverToo said: Novabreaker said: I don't think just deciding on becoming a "survivor" is a strategy that works on its own right at all. Who knows, maybe it has worked for others but it certainly never worked for me in the long run. The trouble I see there is that people attempt to place the emphasis on the construction process of their subjectivity as an identity first, not as a pure functional being. What scars people most in their lives is not their overall negative "approach in life", but not being able to take care of their everyday chores or social relations in a satisfying manner. This means to me that the starting points are always individual tasks that are required to be performed. Maybe "winners" had the survivor mentality in the first place, but anybody who's ever achieved their goals didn't do so because of their outlook in their life but because they actually went to do those things and for one reason or another succeeded in them.
"You look so unhappy. Try smiling some more!", "Okay I'm smiling now. Is this what happiness is supposed to feel like?" Excellent point, IMO. The old-school social work ideal for helping the 'underpriviledged' was all about GIVING people things and doing for them. The newer philosophy is all about people learning how to do it themselves in order to promote independence and self-esteem.
It's uncomfortable and scary to do something for the first time--but the "high" from the pride of accomplishment is something that just can't be described. Indeed! ^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^*^
Being happy doesn't mean that everything is perfect, it means you've decided to look beyond the imperfections... unknown | |
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What I really find the most problematic with any instances of people promoting their "life management" books or adopting "a positive outlook in life" is though a bit more complex. See, like I said earlier they put emphasis on the subject and on an attempt to control the construction process of subjectivity through externally imposed quidelines. However, we do not perform our everyday chores as subjects, or as personas. There is no need for Novabreaker to be exactly like Novabreaker is as a person to have the ability to wash the dishes. There is no need for subjectivity even for the athlete to break the world record, he will do so because he has the capacity to do so physically. You might say the athelete has acquired his physical strength because of his positive outlook in life, but that doesn't say anything. He acquired his physical potential because he went on to do certain demanding things. He just as well could have had performed those tasks feeling depressed, who knows of his sentiments? It really doesn't matter.
We function in the world every second, we do not promote our excellency as interesting individuals and our successful actions do not stem from our subjectivity, but from the fact that we perform actions. The only time when we do indeed exist as subjects is when we think about ourselves, stop for a moment and reflect on our pasts (and you can see nothing happens in that case). Subjectivity is constantly placed aside in action, yet "a positive attitide" can only exist there as a part of your identity. And that one's a pretty empty place as it's constantly constructing itself and never stops from changing. Happiness is not just some simple tool - pleasure in itself is a sentiment derived from successful actions. Those are the "happy" moments that we seek to experience again and again in order to have a satisfying life, it's not a mind-frame. By saying "I have a positive outlook on life" you are merely giving yourself the name of an optimist. It says nothing about what you are going to experience the next moment. | |
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The Victims we know so well
they shine in your eyes when you kiss and tell Strange voices it never seems But your're always there like A ghost in my dreams... Christian Zombie Vampires | |
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SupaFunkyOrgangrinderSexy said: retina said: I get just as annoyed with people who have to put a positive spin on everything, no matter how serious the situation is. The minds of these two extremes probably operate in a similar way; they have to colour the world with one brush, otherwise it becomes too complex for them to handle. Simplicity can be comforting sometimes.
But finding genuine positivity when it is genuinely lacking can be much healthier than wallowing in the mire. People have told me many times in my life that I must not have problems because I am always happy and I tell them I just hate being unhappy I have plenty of problems, but I project what it is I want and that is happiness. When you are happy, it's easy for others around you to be happy as well. I totally agree with this thinking. I usualy have a smile on my face even when I am dealing with things. I find that for me being unhappy makes me even more so. I also try and keep things cheerful and happy around me in the music I choose to listen to and the things that interest me.Christian Zombie Vampires | |
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I think I'm a lot better @ taking responsibility for my own shit nowadays... I used to be so fucking ANGRY, the slightest thing could take me over the edge (emotionally) & I felt like the world was out to get me Somebody told me once that the stress could kill me  I started being more conscious of my moods & why I felt whatever way I was feeling. I started talking myself down from angry, woe-is-me situations, tried to take the lesson from things that happened & find something, anything positive for every negative thing that was going on. "My fucking car broke down in the middle of the night on the fucking freeway!!!" **(deep breath)** "At least I have the $ to pay for it & somebody to come get me." 
But now it helps me to just take the lesson, find the positive & keep it moving... I do have a friend who makes me nuts - always the victim, never takes responsibility for the fact that her entire M.O. is to make her life difficult just so she can complain about it  She talks/complains SO MUCH you don't even know what's true/important anymore w/ her, most of her words are useless. Then she gets mad when you don't realize that one tidbit out of the 10,000 word complaint is what she really needs help with. She makes everything sound DIRE, then you call & it's the last thing on her mind 
I've learned to tune her out, some people just can't take advice (or don't want it, or don't want to hear anything other than their own angst)...    I never met you, but I LOVE you & I will forever!! Thank you for being YOU - my little Princey, the best to EVER do it | |
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i don't think anyone ever need "play" the victim... we all are victims, and perpetrators as well.
what i find odd is when people seem not to realize that they are active participants in their own lives. | |
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AnotherLoverToo said: Do you do this, or does someone you know?
I'm talking about the sort of person who not only always complains about how horrible their lives are, but who also seem determined to wallow in it no matter what kind of solutions might exist. It's almost like they get off on being pitiful and they usually really want someone to "rescue" them and take care of things for them. ((BTW, before anyone accuses me of being insensitive, I'm not talking about a rare and genuinely disastrous occurrence, I'm talking about a lifelong tendency towards this kind of thinking)) Yeah, ALT. I have a relative very much like that, blames everyone else for their lot in life. Never takes responsibility and loves to impose upon others...  Tries my patience, but I still try to honor them as an elder. | |
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