SupaFunkyOrgangrinderSexy said:

I guess this highlights a difference between us. You see, I don't see happiness as an attitude that you can take on if you just put your mind to it. Sure, you can try to be chipper and look at things from the bright side, but true happiness has to grow from a real reason. If you're dying from AIDS for example, it would be ludicrous to put a positive spin on that. You can find other things of value in your life that may bring you happiness, but if we're talking about what is healthier then I'd definitely say that it's to acknowledge the negative sides in life just as much as the positive ones.

SupaFunkyOrgangrinderSexy said:

I was just putting that in the context of retina's original post. But in the same gasp of breath I have to say it's even CHEMICALLY impossible for some people's neurological systems to find genuine enjoyment from their lives. It's not really the matter of getting to choose one's outlook in life, pessimism is just something that takes over and I don't think it's anybody's fault.
[Edited 6/22/06 13:47pm]

retina said:

as someone living with (not dying from) HIV, you would be suprised how many positive angles can come out of being infected

Novabreaker said:

Oops, I posted before noticing your comment. This is very similar to my way of thinking.

retina said:

Well I certainly am not oblivious to my problems but when I walk into a room that has no bearing on my problem I am not going to drag that shit in with me. What for? A simple smile goes a hell of a long way in this world. I am not gonna frown 24/7 because I broke up with my boyfriend of 5 years. I will cry about it practically every chance I get, because it is hurting me, but I am not going to be nasty to people because I'm having bad feelings.

SupaFunkyOrgangrinderSexy said:

For the record, before I get accused/reported for it, I'm NOT talking about having a problem with anyone here using that term or "playing the victim". No, Richard, I'm not saying you'd report me or that you think I think you're playing the victim, but you know how I have been perceived here as singling someone out. So, just sayin'....

People can call themselves whatever they want--I"m all about people recovering from trauma, it's something I'm actively engaged in every day. As far as an example, I suppose that it's women's domestic violence and rape counselors whom I've experienced as being most adamant about literally making people change their language.
[Edited 6/22/06 13:50pm]

life is what you make of it. there are people who endure (haha- din't say survive! ) a LOT in our lives and are some of the more positive people you meet, richard and i for example. there are people that let the smaller things in life completely overwhelm them. i am not sure telling either type they need to react differently makes any sense, nor does it affect much change, as people will react the way they want or need to, regardless.

AnotherLoverToo said:

OK. Changing your language to try and shape the "situation" does not really always effect the desired change. I see that

cborgman said:

No, I don't think I would be surprised by that. My example wasn't meant to lead you to believe that a person with HIV or AIDS has to be unhappy, it was meant to highlight that dying from a disease (which you are not) should be taken seriously and you can't just "project" happiness onto that fact in and of itself. It was just an example.

SupaFunkyOrgangrinderSexy said:

true

retina said:

Well nobody but you said that. If someone is dying of a disease, of course you can't just smile your way out of it but there does come a choice where you either give up living or live in spite of it. And yes that can be hard but that's the difference between people I guess.

SupaFunkyOrgangrinderSexy said:

Showing your true feelings is not being nasty. You don't have to fake a smile if you feel like crying. I want to emphasize that it goes both ways though, you shouldn't bring yourself down if you happen to be feeling happy that day for certain reasons despite a generally miserable situation, for example.

retina said:

but you can. in my particular case, actually dying when it gets to that point will probably be easier than the terror of not knowing what is going to happen between now and that point. dying from a disease also means release from the pain and misery leading up to dying, which may seem morbid of me, but that's pretty positive.

SupaFunkyOrgangrinderSexy said:

I think that's his point.

retina said:

I for one HATE showing people I feel like crying. People just don't wanna see that shit. I'm a fake smile girl all the way.

CarrieMpls said:

Exactly. Thank you.

retina said:

you don't have to fake a smile, but that is how some of us perservere. you smile and look for positive aspects untill your emotions stabilize and logic kicks in.

plus, i dont like bringing other people down with my problems. that's why i stopped talking about being positive on the org other than the occasional mention. it was really bumming people out when i would write a dark and moody peice about being positive and how miserable it is, and what not when the date of my being positive rolled around annually.

cborgman said:

I think what Retina's trying to say is that it's ok to be sad, unhappy, angry whatever and sometimes no amount of pretending to be suzy sunshine is gonna change it. Sometimes we have to acknowledge our pain. We don't have to pretend to be happy for the sake of other people when we aren't. This doesn't mean we can be rude, or assholes, or treat people badly, but it means we can just be who we are and express what we're truly feeling. And in chronic situations, this can last a long time.

So, anyway, I'm sayin' that as a "rescuer" type (just as unhealthy in its own way as a "victim" type), it's annoying to attempt to help someone help themselves and be shot down constantly.

Me: "here is a handout on free English classes, some of which even have childcare"

Other person" "oh, can't you find someone who can come to my house and give me lessons"

Me: "here is a handout on foodbank locations, some of them have evening hours so your husband can drive you and help carry those heavy bags"

Other person: "oh, he's tired when he gets home"

Me: "here is the telephone number for the welfare office so you can talk to someone about your problem with your health coupon. They have interpreters, too"

Other person: "can YOU do it?" (even though she's home all day while I work full time and carry a huge caseload)

CarrieMpls said:

that may have been his point but it's not rocket science and nobody really needed it pointed out. It's a given

AnotherLoverToo said:

I DO know the type. It is VERY annoying.

CarrieMpls said:

good point. middle ground

CarrieMpls said:

Well of course. I am not one of those fakers. I suppose I chose to explain the "always happy" angle because people have told me that I must not have problems and I have had major problems. It's all about how I handle them and staying happy is just the way I deal with life.

cborgman said:

Actually it's not middle ground, it's exactly what I was trying to say all along but was unable to express so eloquently.

AnotherLoverToo said:

I'd be irritated to

I have seen many a woman and even men play the victim.

I am not sure I fully understand the whys of it.. But I agree that it becomes a part of their lives, and they just do not know how to break the cycle.

I find it hard to be around them. I truly was a victim as a child, and it was my choice to find my way to becoming the survivor, and to live a healthy life.

Dr. Laura has a book out called Bad Childhood, Good Life. Good read for growth.

retina said:

Well nobody was even disputing that!

SupaFunkyOrgangrinderSexy said:

retina said:

okay, same point, expressed better

cborgman said:

Amen, Supa!