to those who saw it:

did you walk out of the theater feeling a sense of closure, or did you walk out feeling as upset and disturbed as you did on 9/11?

and if your answer was the latter, how will that benefit you?

no wrong answer. just asking.

to those who saw it:

did you walk out of the theater feeling a sense of closure, or did you walk out feeling as upset and disturbed as you did on 9/11?

and if your answer was the latter, how will that benefit you?

no wrong answer. just asking.

jojofran said:

What I"m saying is that you saw things in the movie that just weren't there...you seemingly became angry or irritated by the fact that it MAY have been put out to help garner support for the war and the Bush administration ("I just don't know "why" this movie is out now. Could it be to gain more support for Bush and this damn war? To recapture some of the previous bravado people in America had post 911?")...that view could not have been put into your mind simply from what occurs during the film, because it's in no way "pro-war" or "pro-Bush"...hell, one of the few times it even mentions the president in any way, it's to show the military feeling as if they have their hands tied because they need Bush's authorization before taking any action against possible hijacked planes...and they can't seem to get that authorization because they can't reach him. It's a VERY small aspect of the film, and is shown not to "make a statement" but to reflect facts and reality.

Whatever my views and biases towards what occurred 5 years ago, I am indeed able to step back and realistically tell myself if there was a "slant" towards the movie or if it played as it was advertised--as an objective take on one aspect of that tragic day.

As for how much is reality and how much is fiction, the research that went into making this film was extraordinary...hundreds upon hundreds of interviews with people who were actually in contact with those who were on the plane at the time...there were dozens of people constantly talking on cell phones and plane phones to family members, airport crew members and even 911. The people on the ground were being told what was happening on the plane, and that information was passed onto the director and screenwriter during the interviews. Do they know if 5 passengers attacked the terrorists, or 10 passengers, or 12? Does it matter? Do they know if they actually tried entering the cockpit by using the service cart instead of kicking it in with their feet? Does it matter?
[Edited 4/30/06 10:16am]

Byron said:

Of course Byron. You have to ask or ponder over those questions. Why? Because this country is known for doing this same thing in the past. Media manipulation. I choose to question everything in life in relation to trauma or terror. I also explained that I am a God fearing individual. So I would be a fool not to include the nature of spirituality in the context of my personal viewpoint. The country used lies to benefit itself in relation to so many things that it is impossible to go into on this forum. Race relations being one of them. Remember Russia being the evil empire? I still vaguely remember a Phil Donahue satellite show with audience members in Russia. The American audience kept stating that they felf sorry for the Russian audience. And the Russian audience were stating that they felt sorry for the American audience. Why? Because of "media manipulation"! It is just my personal opinion. Noone has to support me. I do agree with some of your comments. Others, I do not. But hey people make the world go round'.

Byron said:

i hear you. but i am uncomfortable with it. i am sure they had the full cooperation of the families whose loved ones are portrayed in the film. but that said, some of it was made up. it would have to be. i haven't seen it of course so my opinion of it is just based on comments from people who have seen it and the statements offered by people involved in making the film.

jojofran said:

All of that just kinda confirms my opinion earlier...that your reactions to the movie are based more on preconceived notions and biases than they are in anything occuring during the film.

As for the director, he's apparently a british filmmaker (I think) who leans far more in a liberal direction politically...and he has a reputation for being able to make fact-based films with respect and dignity that stay far away from propoganda as possible. From all reports, "United 93" is exactly the type of movie he'd make, and not because he's helping the government spread their slanted rhetoric. The two films he's made before that are in the same vein are "The Murder of Stephen Lawrence" (which is a true story about the stabbing death of a black teenager by some neo-nazis in London), and "Bloody Sunday" (which is the true story about the Brittish military opening fire on a peaceful demonstration due to confusion and chaos surrounding the events...this event inspired U2's song "Sunday Bloody Sunday"). This guy's rep is pretty much impeccible, so there's no reason to speculate that his film was made with government propoganda in mind, whether in its content or its timing.
[Edited 4/30/06 12:48pm]

I won't be going to see this film, though perhaps for reasons other than most I've read.

First, I very much respect that some people will get something out of this film. For their sake, I'm glad it was made.

As for me, I sometimes feel bad admitting it, but I was rather callous to the events of 9/11. No doubt, this was largely because I don't live in a directly affected area, and I personally know only one person who was in the WTC towers at the time. (Thankfully, she survived.) But that aside, I didn't/don't see the strikes as being apart from horrid acts of politically inspired murder that have happened many days before and every day since... both in the U.S. and around the world.

By all means, the lives and collective heroism of these victims need to be dignified with our attention. But to me, a REAL healing/learning agent would be a project investigating the true, unmitigated and unspun geopolitical dynamics that motivate humans to do reprehensible things like this.

That is not at all to say that I sympathize with terrorists. Nor do I slough off the loss of life. I cherish it. But I wonder if this film, even as it seeks to pay respect, actually leaves viewers readied to ponder what we can all do... must do... to truly allay this sort of anger and violence, thus making this sacrifice of life not in vain. I'm concerned an emotional recount of the day just won't do it.

Now, I'm realistic: We will NEVER stop violence. Some people are simply friggin' crazy and thrive on hurting others. And a 90-minute movie about a very pointed aspect of that day simply cannot remedy all the ills of the world. But I just have to think there's gotta be a way to confer the notion that these friends and neighbors of ours die over and over again each day that we accept -- and sometimes aid and abet -- a world wherein this stuff "needs" to happen. Could not $15 million have gone to that effort?
[Edited 4/30/06 20:54pm]

it's too soon for 9/11 movies. these movies need to be made for the next generation, who weren't alive when it happened. even then, i'm not sure if this is something that should go with popcorn and twizzlers.

I wanted so badly to just kill those mother fuckers in that film hijaking that plane. But they got what they deserved in the end.

paisleypark4 said:

BINGO! That's exactly what I was afraid of.

Lammastide said:

Well Lamastide I didn't want to kill anybody. LOL! I know you from your posts and am sure you wouldn't think that.

jojofran said:

I dunno, buddy. I may come off all "om shanti" on the org , but there are days I'd love to fly certain folk into a building.



...I don't like that part of myself. And it certainly doesn't need to be fed.

Lammastide said:

Well I would think you would do that in liew of "justice" being rightfully served and executed immediately right my friend? LOL.

When you consider that flight 93 LANDED in Cleveland that morning unharmed....I would call this movie PROPAGANDA.

Graycap23 said:

Huh?

Lammastide said:

yeah, im gonna have to second that....




HUH ???