So, ok, I'm gonna kinda add to what JasmineFire, who is being very diplomatic, has said.

Honestly, I think the only thing your vet did wrong is to not EXPLAIN to you what was going on and why. Everything they did was normal, except, as JF said, trying to do sedation in front of you. . . and my guess is, they would have preferred not to, but you insisted? If not, that was dumb. Dogs get very stressed out by their people being stressed out; 90% of them behave better if they are taken away from their person.

Oh, and if you asked for an xray and they wouldn't do it, that's odd. Really odd. Usually vets try more conservative treatment first, which makes sense for multiple reasons, but I've never worked someplace where a client wouldn't get their critter xrayed if they wanted it. I assume you directly said you wanted that? Yeah, odd.

Note: the hardest thing about being in veterinary medicine is the humans. Try to understand that.

There was, in fact, a reason to give the meds IV (in the vein) rather than subcutaneously (in the neck). Several reasons, in fact. Good reasons. They should have explained them to you.

And there are VERY GOOD REASONS for keeping a critter at the hospital until they have fully recovered from anesthesia. I have never seen an otherwise healthy animal die under anesthesia. I have seen a couple die during recovery, for various reasons. Yes, you may be keeping a more direct eye on your pet, but believe it or not, most vet staff really do care about their patients, and are looking out for them. If an animal starts having problems during recovery, they need help QUICKLY. Mere seconds really, really matter. A hospital that is practicing really good medicine will have an IV catheter placed during the procedure, and won't take it out until the animal has recovered, so if there is a problem, drugs can be administered ASAP. The time it takes for your untrained eye to recognize the difference between normal groggyness and a medical emergency, and to then transport him back to the vet, where they have to try to find new vein access in a critter whose blood pressure is probably dropping, and dropping further by the second (ie. causing the veins to flatten out, making it tough to get a needle into them), is plenty of time for the animal to die needlessly. Again, they should have explained this to you.

Oh, and the buildup on the teeth was not caused by being on the GI diet short-term. That's just not how it works. It was probably building up for a while, but you didn't notice, because how much time do we spend looking at dog teeth? Especially the ones in the back, where the worst buildup usually is. Just so you know they weren't scamming you on this front. Again, they could have explained to you how dental problems occur, which would have done you all a service.


Honestly, if your vet tried to explain all of this to you and you wouldn't listen, you owe them an apology. . . or, better yet, a nice thankyou note for all of the hard work that the almost-certainly-underpaid staff does. And if they didn't try to explain it, they owe you one, and it is a mystery to me why they are trying to make their jobs harder. You should find a vet who communicates well with you.


I say all of this not because I want to make you feel bad or anything, but because I'm horrified at the thought of all of the people reading this thinking that they should try to have things done the wrong way the next time THEY go to the vet. Let the professionals do their work, people! Ask for an explanation if you don't understand, but good gawd, remember why you are paying them rather than doing it yourself.


Glad your puppy has shiny clean teeth and a happy belly again.

JasmineFire said:

You sound like you're going to be a marvelous vet one day.

WillyWonka said:

JF, Your diplomacy will serve you well. I'm sure you've noticed what I've noticed: too many vets have great critter skills and no people skills. Sounds like this was probably the problem with IstenSzek's vet, and look, they may well have lost a client, regardless of how well they were practicing medicine, because they were incapable of explaining to Dad what was going on with his loved one. It's cool that you see the value in his perspective. It would be lost on a lot of vets.

i'm glad everything turned out okay!

Oh, and again, nothing personal, but:

PEOPLE. If your dog becomes aggressive over something unreasonable, like having fur shaved off of his leg, then he needs training. That is not normal, acceptable behavior. And of course the staff is gonna muzzle him. How would you like to try to get a needle in a vein while worrying about having your throat ripped out, while the person responsible for training the dog in question is angry at YOU for trying to do your job?

The staff should have been thanked for dealing with your dog's aggression issues.



Of course, as a tech, I would never have put it this way to a client. I was actually thie clinic people-person-problem-fixer-clinic-diplomat-shit-taker.

But now I'm not working for anybody, and gawddammit, this is how it is.

HereToRockYourWorld said:

i think that's what it all comes down to in the end. just very bad
communication. which is exactly what upsets me because we went in
a few days earlier to make the apointment and to have them look at
his teeth to see how much work it would be and if they would have
to pull out something (turned out everything was still in a good
condition they just needed to clean it up a bit).

if they had time pressure the morning of the procedure they could
have explained it to me when i was there for the final check up.

and in no way did i mean to say that all vets do this wrong or that
the way i handled was the right way.

but i know my own dog and how he reacts so the interaction would
have been appreciated. by not listening to me and still doing it
their way without even stopping and looking up at me, i think it
was their own mistake that things turned out a bit bad.

anyway, no hard feelings. next time i will demand to be talked
through what is going to happen and hopefully something like the
other day will not happen anymore.

IstenSzek said:

They SHOULD have listened. I mean. . .I promise you, there was a good reason for doing it "their way" (ie. probably the best way, medically). They have worked with thousands of dogs, and while you do know your dog, they probably know more than you give them credit for.

That said, it was really stupid for them not to stop and explain themselves, and the available options. Stupid even for their own saftey. I can tell you that if I was about to do something and the client wanted to stop and tell me that it was going to make their critter, generally equipped with teeth and/or claws, upset, I sure as hell wanted to hear about it. Ignoring those kinds of warnings gets techs sent to the ER with unfortunate frequency.

I once saw a dog whose people told me as soon as I walked into the exam room that he had been abused and got snappy when he was scared. So, I got down on my hands and knees, and sort of backed up close to the dog, and let him come up to me and say hi, and just went really slow and talked softly. . . nothing special or interesting. . . and the dog was doing great, no aggression, seemed really sweet. . . and the woman was near tears. She told me that people usually just proceed like normal when she tells them that, and the dog gets scared and aggressive, and it's awful for everybody. She was so freakin' grateful that I just listened to what she said, and for heaven's sake, it was in my own self-interest to do so.

Point being, I understand both sides. A lot of clients really don't know the best way to handle their own animals, and vets and their staff get tired of being told how to do their jobs. But that can lead to a sort of arrogance that shuts down communication and is bad for everybody. Including the critter, who just wants to know why the hell they are at the vet when there is a perfectly nice park just down the block.

oh my god! he looks like my jack russell, but with a corgi body!



well, sorta. but you know what I mean. does he possess any of the annoying jack russell traits?

anyway, yeah, I remember once my family took my first dog (a terrier mix) to the vet and a new vet, fresh out of school, tried to do something to my dog out in the waiting room - what, I don't exactly remember, but we TOLD him not to cause we knew my dog would freak out. And he did, and he tried to bite, so the vet put him in a muzzle/harness combo (which proceeded to freak him out even more) and he managed to nip the vet anyway!

most of the time I trust vets and let them do their jobs but sometimes they need to listen, too - you know your dog and they should take what you say into consideration. you know?

glad your dog is back home now. and with clean teeth!

HereToRockYourWorld said:

There are also vets who shouldn't be in business and don't know how to handle anything.

My sister was taking her animals to a vet who was well-respected and even has his own radio show here in Detroit. I started to get suspicious of this guy when I called him (for the first time, mind you...) about some aggression problems my cat was having and the first thing he recommended, without knowing or seeing my cat, was to have him euthanized.
Anyway...my sister took her scotty to him because she was having major tummy troubles (emergency level) and asked him to take an x-ray. He wouldn't do it and proceeded to do blood tests instead and said the results wouldn't be back for at least 10 days...within that week Buffy became more and more sick, so my sister took her to another emergency vet who DID take an x-ray and Buffy's tummy was full of fluid and her bowel had perforated. They took a sample of the fluid and it had cancer cells in it. My sister took Buffy back home one more time to say goodbye to the family and she died in the emergency vet's office that evening.

If you suspect something is wrong...ALWAYS listen to your gut and err on the side of caution. Vets, or even people doctors for that matter, are trained professionals, but they are also human and don't know everything.


( for Buffy)

applekisses said:

I recently had to put my scottie, Angus, down because he had a brain tumor.

u2prnce said:

Aww... I'm sorry
What color was he and how old was he? Buffy was two.

HereToRockYourWorld said:

What always gets me (unless I go to MY vet clinic where they know these things better), is when the vets and vet techs don't have the ability to see what animal owner DOES know how to handle it and who DOESN'T. They should be knowledgable enough to tell. When I took my old dog Ollie to the vet I went to at the time because he was limping intermittently on his front legs, I told them what I had observed in the proper terms you use for describing these things. They looked at me like I was an idiot and then asked me questions in what to me amounted to child language (non-experienced owners). Then they took a series of x-rays that in no way followed what I had told them, and proceeded to tell me that 1) They couldn't see what they wanted to see and 2) Therefore couldn't diagnose Ollie properly.

I took my x-rays and proceeded to a vet I'd had recommended to me previously, told HER the same things I'd done at the other place and she nodded her head and said "Well, you know your dog best so it's very valuable to have your observations. If you run with him in here I will probably not see a damn trace of a limp cos he's a bit stressed about being here." She then looked at the x-rays and threw them away, but she didn't charge me for the new films cos I'd done my part. She told me Ollie had arthritis in his knees due to his joints being overly mobile and medicated him for it. He lived several more years with that medicine than he would have without. Had I never gone to get a second opinion or had I not known the first vet was full of it, he'd have been gone much earlier.

applekisses said:

He was 13 and black with some grey hairs. We thought he would live forever because he was the biggest and strongest Scottie that's ever lived. He only had two serious health issues his entire life. One of them was a broken tooth, because I used to give him ice cubes to chomp on. Whenever he heard the ice machine in the fridge, he would come over and sit waiting. The other was some medication for his skin(his only real problem) that made him seriously ill. He ended up recovering from that.

He had a severe stroke one day and then several seizures after that. He was very upset and out of sorts and couldn't see me or hear me very well. We took him to a 24 animal hospital and they said he probably had a brain tumor. They would've known for sure if they did a really expensive test, but they wouldn't have been able to operate on it.

It still makes me upset because he should have lived another five years. And I wasn't ready to say goodbye to him. Our other dog is a Westie named Gordie and he has arthritis, can barely hear and has acted like an old dog for years. He's still around, though. I love him, but Angus was really my dog and (in our family at least) Scotties always have a close relationship with their boys. He was a big dummy with a great heart and attitude.

u2prnce said:

I'm so sorry, honey. When did this happen? Buffy was black too...jet black. She was such a goofy girl

yeah but let's be honest, this is not just about vets. this is about all
doctors in general. some of them are fine some of them are less fine and
some of them are damn fools.

when i see from people around me and more distant, people on television,
what some people allow doctors to do to loved ones, i could just cry for
anger.

people are always afraid to open up their mouths because they think that
the doctor knows best. yes, sure in 90% of the cases the woman or man in
question really does know what's best and will try their hardest to make
your loved one feel better.

but there are also people who make mistakes, just like folk in any other
job out there.

even my own parents let me lie barfing on the bathroomfloor unable to do
anything but puff for air, for hours before they decided to call the doc
for the SECOND TIME THAT DAY (imagine how angry the man must be if we'll
call him again. he said it's the flu so can't you sleep on it?).

in the end i told them if i fucking die because of this you will regret
not having called that bastard again. and so they did, and so i was, in
the end taken to hospital, after my doc claimed for another 12 hours in
our own home that i was perfectly fine and probably trying to cut class



this is the same man who told my mother she had an upset stomach when
one of her kidneys had completely stopped working and was rotting away
inside of her body. a dozen doctors in the hospital left her to fend
for herself for 5 weeks (!!!!) and even took out her appendix (which
was perfectly healthy) by mistake before they realised it was her left
kidney. when they finally opened her up there was only puss and a bit
of tissue left where the kidney had once been.

my question is, why the hell didn't my dad try to kill one of the docs
on staff after two weeks?

what makes people so affraid to stand up to doctors in the first place?
i think it's a bit different in america but in europe, especially in
northern europe doctors rule supreme in their wards and whenever you
say anything to them they treat you like an idiot.

but if your gut tells you that something is wrong, you should go ahead
and say it. and if you're convinced that something is wrong you should
get someone in for a second oppinion. and if that didn't work i would
just punch someone in the mouth lol.

j/k people, j/k.