well there you have it-what can you do. its always gonna be that way for somebody. you cant heal the world. sometimes things happen we can't control and sometimes life really is what you make it for those who have the opportunity but do not go for it. bottom line parenting is hard work but a parent isn't any better than someone who isn't a parent. but to present birthing and raising a family as if its like going to the cleaners or paying your bills is not right either. it is so much more and it something that wont be understood until or if it does happen to you.
[Edited 4/22/06 14:05pm]

Life is what you make it - I don't agree with the "Supposed to be hard or you wont go to haven" mumbo jumbo either. You want a good life you have to work for it.

Isn't that an overly idealistic way of seeings things? People have to deal with things that are out of their control... they genetic makeup, environment, etc... There are people that will be miserable no matter how hard they work.

I just think it's a very serious commitment to have children that people don't think about. Sometimes, I think people are caught up in the romantic notion of having kids, but definitely raising them is hard work. I don't think that there is anything wrong with feeling overwhelmed from time to time because it seems to be an overwhelming job and responsibility to raise kids, particularly in this day and age.

As far as being selfish, well is it selfish to fulfill your desires? If so, then we all are selfish in certain respects, aren't we? However, I do think that some people shouldn't have children or have them for the wrong reasons. I've seen some situations where I have thought why on Earth did these people have kids in the first place if they don't want to raise them? But amazingly, some great kids have come out of some very bad situations, so go figure. I just think a person has do the best he/she can in any situation... whatever deliberate choices or chance might bring.

By the way, I don't have children, but I taught high school for a number of years, so I have some experience dealing with all types of kids and parents. I have some issues to where having children might not be possible, and I used to be depressed about that. Now though, I have a pretty full, busy life. I'm happy, so if I don't have kids, well it won't be the end of the world. Am I selfish? Well, yeah I guess so. But I think ultimately people have to follow their own paths. If a couple chooses not to have children, maybe that choice is the best for them, but obviously it's unthinkable for others who have wanted to be parents. It's always amazing to me how life unfolds, and things appear to happen for a reason.

I dunno. I think that we are all in this life together, so we need to support each other rather than criticize. Consequently, I really appreciate the honesty of the initial post. I know how tough raising kids can be. But then again, having children --or just helping kids reach their goals--is very rewarding. Helping people in general is the most important thing that we can do--knowing that you somehow made a difference in someone's life. Well, that's pretty fulfilling in itself.

True, but some of those people who have children tend to forget they're not better

well thats fucked up to. i never felt i was better or somehow entitled to some kind of special treatment because i do have kids. ive been blessed to have people help me at points in my life when i really needed it because of the kids but i never asked for it. its the last thing i do. if i can't find a babysitter my kids go with me. even to work. if thats not possible then i'm shit outta luck 'tis all. the fleeting situations i get into because i have kids are nobodys dealings but my own and i deal with them the best way i know how my way. again i'm sorry for how you said your parents attitude about the things you went through because of them. if anything they should've owned up to it and apologized. i dont think people are aware of how things affect kids when they get older. it breaks my heart when kids go through things.

i understand completely

they should have off-switches

To the people who regret that their parents ever gave birth to them, all I can say is; I'm sorry for your loss.

Life is a beautiful thing.

Although my world is a hectic, cash-strapped, over-worked jumble of days that fly by, I am thankful for being here, and am forever grateful to my parents for having me.

Between the fights and the emergencies and the breakdowns which you may have, ...take the time to enjoy the little things that this world has to offer; a crisp blue morining in April, a spider spinning a web, a bluejay's song, a child's laughter, the seashore in June, and on & on & on...

I have 3 kids, and if I were wealthy, I would have another 3. Yes, the earth's resources are dwindling. Yes, it's a cruel society. Yes, reality slaps you across the face at every turn. But to have a child and fill their lives with love and hapiness is a wonderful fulfillment of one's own existence.

However, if indeed your parents screwed up your life to the point where you cannot stop and smell the roses, then again I say to you, I'm sorry for your loss.

you're not any less selfish because you take care of someone

See?

This is the dilemma for moms who did not necessarily want to be moms. I never wanted to have children. I wanted to be free. And then I met my son's father, and well, after two years of being careful.. we messed up. I was devastated.
It was as if people expected a chemical reaction to occur in my brain that would make me want to start baking cookies and knitting blankets and booties once I got pregnant.
I won't say I got pregnant by accident. I'll say I got pregnant due to bad judgement of the part of myself and my then boyfriend. I did the dance and now i am doing the responsible thing.
No, I do not view motherhood as some great damn rewarding celebration of life's yakkity yakkity yak. I hate playgrounds and birthday parties and "Chuck E Cheese." Having a child did not suddenly make those fun places for me to be.But I fake it for the sake of my son.
I am not going to refuse him the things that should come with every childhood- the playgrounds, the parties and even CHuck E Cheese. BUT, i will not like it. And you would be suprised by how many moms feel like this. Even some who are in this thread preaching lovey dovey joyfulness so hard (they're really only trying to convince themselves that they love it).
It's bizarre, I do not like this mommy stuff very much, but I love my son and would never think to give him up for some stranger to raise. he is mine. and that is selfish.

I went to a 2 year old's party on saturday that served punch for the parents - we had more fun than the kids!

To the people who regret that their parents ever gave birth to them, all I can say is; I'm sorry for your loss.

Life is a beautiful thing.

Although my world is a hectic, cash-strapped, over-worked jumble of days that fly by, I am thankful for being here, and am forever grateful to my parents for having me.

Between the fights and the emergencies and the breakdowns which you may have, ...take the time to enjoy the little things that this world has to offer; a crisp blue morining in April, a spider spinning a web, a bluejay's song, a child's laughter, the seashore in June, and on & on & on...

I have 3 kids, and if I were wealthy, I would have another 3. Yes, the earth's resources are dwindling. Yes, it's a cruel society. Yes, reality slaps you across the face at every turn. But to have a child and fill their lives with love and hapiness is a wonderful fulfillment of one's own existence.

However, if indeed your parents screwed up your life to the point where you cannot stop and smell the roses, then again I say to you, I'm sorry for your loss.

You're being very condescending, but thanks. Most people see the bright side to life because they have no other choice and they're reaching: spider webs and blue sky, yeah ok. Also, to say But to have a child and fill their lives with love and hapiness is a wonderful fulfillment of one's own existence. sounds selfish to me. It's really just benefitting you. So, you have to have children in order to be fulfilled?

I guess we are on opposite ends on this one. I really don't get what you are trying to say.

You're being very condescending, but thanks. Most people see the bright side to life because they have no other choice and they're reaching: spider webs and blue sky, yeah ok. Also, to say But to have a child and fill their lives with love and hapiness is a wonderful fulfillment of one's own existence. sounds selfish to me. It's really just benefitting you. So, you have to have children in order to be fulfilled?