I have to say, my liberal ass doesn't think gun control is the answer. I think outlawing guns would be about as effective as outlawing drugs.

I think health care, including mental health care, is the answer. Fuck our president -- fuck him hard!-- for spending our money on a war instead of health care.

SeattleInvasion said:

Youre totally right about the guns/drugs comparison seattle, but it just wouldve been so much better, IMO, if the guns were never allowed in the first place, like here in the UK. That just doesnt happen here. But, you cant change history...

susannah said:

There are a lot of aspects of American culture that contribute to gun violence. Obviously, these things are rare, or they wouldn't be headlines. But they do happen, and they clearly shouldn't.

SeattleInvasion said:

SeattleInvasion said:

Yeah, Im sure there are, but all Im saying is at the point where someone said, "ok, we can all have guns", alarm bells should have rang. thats the point im taking it back to, that they should never have been allowed in the first place. I dont know, Im probably being naive, after all I come from a place where we dont have to deal with this...

susannah said:

That starts with the founding of our country. And we could all have guns so we could revolt again should our new government seek to opress us. That's the idea behind it. I think.

CarrieMpls said:

Ah ok, I get that How very equal of them. Still though, dont like the gun thing

susannah said:

The problem is that that point was essentially the very beginning of our history (the right to bear arms, while interpretation has been controversial, is pretty clearly laid out in our constitution). And it's just a different place. Being so geographically spread-out, and with much of the population of the country being sparse early on (compared to Europe, many areas are STILL sparsley populated), guns served an important purpose. People had to be prepared to fend for themselves in what was, and to a large degree still is, a rural nation.

I also think that the extreme racial tensions in this country, put into play with our history of slavery, has contributed to a culture of distrust and violence.

It ain't pretty. And I don't know what the answer is.

Guns are a problem, there should be more gun CONTROL, but not necessarily the abolishion.

I really feel the main point people don't seem to GET in America is that your health care system SUCKS! Seriously people, something good needs to be done here. Compare it to places like Canada and Australia, heck every other western nation and you see that you have a lot of people with serious mental conditions who are in need of appropriate care. You are the most powerful country on the plantet. Therefore, the people of this country need to really come together and take a stand over this lack of facility and appropriate care. Make voting mandatory and bring some decent coverage for illnesses, particularly MENTAL ILLNESSES into your system of facilities.

I am a person who has benefited immensely from such care in the past and while I was never near as "crazy" as some of the people roaming around homeless or whatnot in the US, I do feel a connection with those people who desperately require the right medication to prevent such outbursts and episodes of psychosis, which usuallu are rare. However rare they may be, the US' answer is to often send unwell people to jail! The reason this travesty and others like it happened was because of untreated psychosis and it can easily be tended to and even fixed if medication is subsidized and the cost for healing a mentally ill person becomes affordable.

.
[Edited 3/27/06 15:33pm]

SeattleInvasion said:

I love you sooooo much.

JPW said:

Hell yes. And some of us DO get that. Unfortunately, we get dismissed as socialist freaks, while one of our many crazy people gets elected president. It's a mess.

I do disagree on the gun control point, though. It won't work. It just won't work. I'd prefer to focus on the mental health care issue, as I think gun control is a loser.

Romera said:

You know it's mutual, baby.
[Edited 3/27/06 15:49pm]

SeattleInvasion said:

The werid thing is when I lived in Chicago, I would hear the shots all the time from my bedroom windows...I guess after not living there for awhile you are not used to it.

notoriousj said:

Yeah, I'm totally not used to it. That would freak me out.

SeattleInvasion said:

after awhile it would not bother me to the point that if I needed to go to walgreens at 3 in the morning, I would walk there...mind you I never carried mase or anything on me...I never had a problem with people fucking with me either...not smart I know, but like I said I was used to it....now it would scare the shit outa me, but to hear it more then once I would get used to it quickly, it would be like living in chicago all over again.

i still had this hippie impression of the upper northwest...

careful, guys.

I'm not into the rave scene, but when I heard this shooting was in connection with a rave it blew my mind. It's just not something that happens with that much E floating around.

I can't imagine how rough this must be on everyone who knew the victims.


I don't want to politicize this much, but when I see people posting that you "get used to" the sound of gunshots in certain cities or neighbourhoods down there, it really does make me glad I live where I do. I've never seen a gun in real life aside from military rifles in parades, and those people I know that own guns don't show them off or talk about them much. I can't imagine getting used to the sound of a weapon.
[Edited 3/28/06 3:34am]

meow85 said:

Cosign. I live right in the centre of one of the biggest cities in Scotland now, which isnt really saying much when youre comparing it to America, but theres nothing like that here. Im surrounded within a half mile on three sides by the police station, fire station and ambulance depot, and it was hard enough for me to get used to the sirens...I couldnt do gunshots.

Humans are flawed. Not a good idea having ease of access to weapons of mass destruction when you flip out through depression or anger. Armed with a kitchen knife you simply couldn't do as much damage.

SpecialEd said:

The point I was trying to make.

susannah said:

I know what you mean. I used to live on the outskirts of the city where all you could hear were birds and the occasional car. I moved downtown 3 years ago and still haven't gotten used to the sound of sirens.

Update: The Director of the Mayor's Office of Film and Music contacted the Mayor's senior staffer in charge of public safety to express concern about a potential anti-rave backlash. This is from the response:

"...this crime had nothing to do with music or the rave scene. No one is looking at it that way. I anticipate the following stories and efforts will focus on gun control and mental health issues."

I'm glad I live in a city where the people in charge are enlightened enough to look at the incident this way.

matt said:

matt said:

That's great! I always get a little nervous whenI hear of a crime commited by an outsider, because there's always the potential for the media to spin it as an accurate portrayal of the reality of goths/punks/freakers/ravers/etc.