The old pull-yourself-up-by-the-bootstraps, I-did-it-so-anyone-can argument. This thread has, at the very least, started screaming of classism.

Who does things like your scenario? 1 to maybe 5% of the people on welfare. Once again, these people who have this card may not even be on welfare, just buying the use of the card. some folks sell part of the value of the card to add on to the rent payment.

Anybody with an argument on the thread ever been on assistance? Do you guys know how much these people even get?

I have been down and out and I never went on assistance, by choice and, instead, I went without because I was capable of giving up certain luxuries to just get by. I had the foil wrapped rabbit ears to get all of two stations in, I ate next to nothing and when I did have money I lived on egg noodles and jam, peanut butter sandwiches on cheap bread, and Ramen Noodles, until eating that shit made you want to vomit. I sold anything of value to pay my utilites. I know many people who've done this.

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The old pull-yourself-up-by-the-bootstraps, I-did-it-so-anyone-can argument. This thread has, at the very least, started screaming of classism.

Who does things like your scenario? 1 to maybe 5% of the people on welfare. Once again, these people who have this card may not even be on welfare, just buying the use of the card. some folks sell part of the value of the card to add on to the rent payment.

Anybody with an argument on the thread ever been on assistance? Do you guys know how much these people even get?

I don't think that was their point, tho...welfare is a goverment system that can be easily manipulated by those who have the desire to do so. It can also be seen as a source of income...that's a very easy mindset to fall into, no matter what. The amount you get doesn't matter...

And probably one of the worst things we could ever do to any human being is help them believe that they can not control their own lives, no matter how destitute they become. And yes, I've been on food stamps before, and I've been at the point of eviction before and literally tearing apart my 12 year old Honda just to find spare change for a gallon of gas, and yes, I've worked 19 hour work days six days a week where I had to walk an hour and a half between jobs because I couldn't afford bus fare...and once I became manager I had next to no sympathy for my employees who couldn't show up on time because of one "Thing" or another, not when I used to walk 5 miles to work in the rain and still showed up for my shift with 10 minutes to spare.

I know all about being ridiculously poor, and I know how much your mindset determines what you do and the decisions you make. It doesn't do anybody any good to pretend otherwise.

yes, but, do you have children ????


it makes your arguement a little different if you dont have kids. and if you dont have kids, and you are a single person out there with a job, no i dont think you should get foodstamps... nor do i think folks should BUY them, but thats a different story - its all about taking away from the kids IMO. anyway, if you do have kids, you cant be serious with this plan.

Yes, I do have kids and I am very serious.

It would have been very easy for me to get fired from my job and go down and apply at the state so that life wasn't as much of a struggle for me and my children and the thought crossed my mind many times. I made the choice of hanging in there and doing what I had to do and I feel good that I provided a good example to my children that hard work and persistance does pay off in the end. I made that choice because I had the means and was very capable of working more than one job and had things I could give up to feed us and pay the bills.

I realize that there are those that may not be capable of working and that they don't have anything else to give up and really do require the help of the state. I still stand by my statement that there are far too many who are on assistance that probably could do without it and take care of it themselves.

As for the highlighted part - that's what I ate so that my children were able to have something other than that. I gave up things, and still do at times, so that my children didn't go without.

sorry that reply was really cut short. i'm sorry i didn't make myself clearer about what i mean. i don't at all disrespect you and your partner and i misread your particular situation. although i do think single women who can't afford to raise a child should not have chhildren until they can afford them, i think there is nothing wrong with being down on one's luck and i would be willing to pay more taxes knowing the money would be going to programs that help people in need. the only taxes i really mind paying are war dollars. and that pisses me off big time. but that's another issue entirely.

what i don't like is when money intended for food is traded for 'luxury' items -- that is non necessities - at a devalued rate. when someone sells a food access card worth 25$ for a cash consideration of 15-20$, that's a shame. and if the cash is used for something like designer clothes that seems inappropriate to me. maybe it's me. there's a good chance i'm turning into an irritable crank in my old age

This is the part I don't understand, X. What did you misread about her situation? What difference would it have made if she was an unwed mother or if she planned her kids? It has nothing to do with what is being talked about here and sounds like a generalization to me.

my point is that imo it is nothing other than utterly irresponsible/foolish for a single, partnerless women who has no money to make multiple babies and to ask the state to help with their support.

and before you scream 'classism, what do you know' let me just say i've been so broke back in the day i had to walk to work, ate mac and cheese from the box ten times a week, frequented the day labor and plasma centers for food money and i surely do know my way around a pawn shop.

i make good money now but the lessons i learned back then have stuck with me. in fact, to this day i don't own a cellphone (luxury item) and i bought my very first car (that's right- very first car) four years ago. i'm over 40 so i was toughing it out for quite some time there with rentals and buses.

i can only speak for my personal feelings on this matter but i do believe it's a really bad idea for a single mother to ignore the consequences of her own fertility and just keep popping babies out. its bad for the children. its bad for the mother. it's a situation that can be avoided through just a little common sense and planning.

1. Parenting is work.
2. Here in Massachusetts at least, most families with jobs qualify for food stamps because the cost of living is so high.
3. Hats off to your sisters. It's not easy for mothers.

I know parenting is hard work...a full-time job...the cost of living here in Michigan is really high too...and if my sisters can do it, why can't other women? Not to mention, they sacrificed for their kids...often going without things themselves so their kids could have them. They have NEVER bought a $350 handbag...or anything else that extravagant. They know what their priorities are.

people have the right to own what they earn. cell phones are a luxury item. people on welfare definitely should NOT be paying for cell phone bills

1. Parenting is work.
2. Here in Massachusetts at least, most families with jobs qualify for food stamps because the cost of living is so high.
3. Hats off to your sisters. It's not easy for mothers.

I know parenting is hard work...a full-time job...the cost of living here in Michigan is really high too...and if my sisters can do it, why can't other women? Not to mention, they sacrificed for their kids...often going without things themselves so their kids could have them. They have NEVER bought a $350 handbag...or anything else that extravagant. They know what their priorities are.

I know parenting is hard work...a full-time job...the cost of living here in Michigan is really high too...and if my sisters can do it, why can't other women? Not to mention, they sacrificed for their kids...often going without things themselves so their kids could have them. They have NEVER bought a $350 handbag...or anything else that extravagant. They know what their priorities are.

2. Here in Massachusetts at least, most families with jobs qualify for food stamps because the cost of living is so high.

apples sweetie, I see your point but speaking as someone who has been in that boat let me give you some insight.

it's hard, yes to be a single ( no matter how you got that way)parent. I worked, I had a job and I went to school.
my parents were old and they bought me things....clothing for me and my child, appliances etc. I remember working with someone who felt the way you did. she said I don't have a decent car and you are on WIC and foodstamps why you got a car. I asked her why she was so mad at me....why did my having something nice threaten her so, why did it seem like I was cheating her--personally when she didn't know my circumstances.
yes i know I boasted in a post above about food stamp fraud. But I tried it the right way working hard not making it student loans due, papers served and then I found out that I could get the help, the limited help. There are rules and time limits on the qualification. It is called AFDC Aid for Families with Dependent children. I got free medical care for my daughter, not me I was indigent, I got WIC and foodstamps for my daughter, we ate very well, but I had no money for clothing, shoes etc...my mother bought that stuff for me, what little money I made went to bills, rent, electric gas etc..they bought me my car while I was in high school. I was raised middle class, but I didn't hate the people who were on assistance. I didn't get mad at them for having some nice things, why can't they have nice things? I know the mental hardache and the tears. My mom bought me things that I sold so I could pay a bill, I am not proud of that but I did it. she saw the struggle so she bought me nice things beautiful things that I kept and I wore to the store using my WIC and foodstamps.

...please try and understand that everyone deserves luxuries sometimes. don't take it personal.

Thanks for taking the time to explain this...and being so kind to me even though I lost my temper.
I guess I just was raised to be more practical...there were times when I was in college and collecting cans and bottles on campus (we have a deposit on them in Michigan) and returning them for money so I could have gas for my old, raggedy car and there were times when my relatives who were better off would give me things that were a little more expensive...but, if I had the opportunity, I returned them either for the money (if I could) or for lesser expensive neccessities.
Being raised working-class puts a work-ethic from hell into you...I think that's where this is coming from. Plus, my parents are older than most people's my age and they lived during the Great Depression...that also shapes the way I see things. My Italian grandmother raised 10 kids during the depression by herself (after my grandfather was killed) and didn't even speak English. She took in washing.
I don't know...I guess I come from stubborn stock.

well, you remind me of myself, at one time... i had some very lean years, and yet somehow never qualified for food stamps. can't figure out why. guess i was never destined to join the system. in any case, did all kinds of odd things to make ends meet - sold scrap metal, wheeled and and dealed (dealt?) antiques, stuff like that.

i don't hate poor people. nor do i mind paying taxes to fund social support systems. i just hate that shit where food stamps are being used as devalued currency to buy non-food items.

gotta sign off now. work calls

Thanks for taking the time to explain this...and being so kind to me even though I lost my temper.
I guess I just was raised to be more practical...there were times when I was in college and collecting cans and bottles on campus (we have a deposit on them in Michigan) and returning them for money so I could have gas for my old, raggedy car and there were times when my relatives who were better off would give me things that were a little more expensive...but, if I had the opportunity, I returned them either for the money (if I could) or for lesser expensive neccessities.
Being raised working-class puts a work-ethic from hell into you...I think that's where this is coming from. Plus, my parents are older than most people's my age and they lived during the Great Depression...that also shapes the way I see things. My Italian grandmother raised 10 kids during the depression by herself (after my grandfather was killed) and didn't even speak English. She took in washing.
I don't know...I guess I come from stubborn stock.