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ufoclub said: what happened with the previous neighbor assault?, I missed that story...
See this thread. Please note: effective March 21, 2010, I've stepped down from my prince.org Moderator position. |
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moderatormatt said: There is no significant bodily harm, but mere momentary injury (such as a push, shove or slap).
Now, 4th degree assault is merely a gross misdemeanor. In theory he faces up to a year in jail, but I seriously doubt that'll happen to him, unless he's got a significant record of prior offenses. I actually wonder if the Prosecutor's office will even file charges. So in theory you can get a year in prison for pushing or shoving someone? 
Good thing there weren't too many cops around at the summer music festivals... Seriously though, I wonder what kind of push would warrant a one year sentence? Even if the person in question has been previously convicted it seems a little over the top. | |
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MickG said: P.S. Bitch to Starbuck Inc about the safty of their places, because this should be good for free starbucks for a month at least.
 The police officer who interviewed us suggested that we send them a letter, and my friend and I discussed it. One possibility we talked about was writing a letter signed by both of us, because I can add the magic words "Attorney at Law" after my name, and sometimes that gets results when a complaint would otherwise be ignored. But in the end, she decided that she doesn't want to do it. Incidentally, the Chairman of Starbucks lives in the neighborhood next to mine. My boss occasionally runs into him at the grocery store and chats with him. If my friend changes her mind about making a complaint, perhaps she should start shopping at the same store.  Please note: effective March 21, 2010, I've stepped down from my prince.org Moderator position. |
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origmnd said: How "mental" could the guy have been if he withdrew at your first action?
I don't think a "normal" person would grab a stranger by the shoulders/neck in a coffeehouse without any provocation whatsoever. Also, when he sat down in the chair afterwards, he did not seem well at all. It appeared as if he wasn't even aware of his surroundings. Did he say anything?
No. Did u ask him anything...why he touched her?
No. I didn't want to provoke him, since he'd moved away from my friend, and I figured that I'd let the police handle the task of interrogating him. Please note: effective March 21, 2010, I've stepped down from my prince.org Moderator position. |
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retina said: So in theory you can get a year in prison for pushing or shoving someone?
At least in this state, yes. But that's simply the maximum penalty allowed under state law for any gross misdemeanor. Similarly, I could, in theory, be sentenced to jail if I rode the bus without paying the fare or presenting a pass. That's a violation of King County Code 28.96.010(B), and it's a misdemeanor. The maximum penalty for those is 90 days in jail. But I doubt they'd lock me up for three months simply because I didn't drop $1.25 in the farebox. Good thing there weren't too many cops around at the summer music festivals...
Well, not every push rises to the level of a criminal assault. It depends upon the circumstances, the mental state of the pusher (e.g., was it intentional or an accident?), etc. Please note: effective March 21, 2010, I've stepped down from my prince.org Moderator position. |
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I remember the neighbour assault all too well, that was pretty nasty. I'm sorry you and you friend had this experience, but unfortuntely these things happen - I'm just glad none of you were seriously hurt.
How odd that Seattle PD have nothing to get that guy help but can only 'bust' people, your friend sounds like she has a heart of gold. Send her our best. | |
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I would NOT even hesitate to call 911 (or kick some face). | |
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the mental health care situation in america is very bad.
. [Edited 1/2/06 23:23pm] | |
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obviously he needs a hospital more then he needs someone pressing charges on him. | |
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BananaCologne said: I remember the neighbour assault all too well, that was pretty nasty. I'm sorry you and you friend had this experience, but unfortuntely these things happen - I'm just glad none of you were seriously hurt.
To some extent, this kind of thing is the part of the price you pay for living in the city. And I'd much rather live in the city than out in the suburbs or a rural area. But still.... Before I relocated here, I spent five years living in Indianapolis, which statistically is significantly more dangerous than Seattle. For almost half of that time, I was within walking distance of a "bad" part of the city. And I never had any trouble. But since moving to Seattle, I've had to deal with this type of incident twice in less than two years.  It's a good thing that I really like this city.
How odd that Seattle PD have nothing to get that guy help but can only 'bust' people, your friend sounds like she has a heart of gold. Send her our best.
Thanks. She does... overall, she seemed more concerned with the man's mental health and her belief that Starbucks doesn't pay its employees a "living wage."Please note: effective March 21, 2010, I've stepped down from my prince.org Moderator position. |
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notoriousj said: obviously he needs a hospital more then he needs someone pressing charges on him.
Agreed. The police officer who interviewed us seemed unhappy that there were only two options: arrest the man or set him loose on the streets. Washington state is a pretty progressive place, but when it comes to dealing with criminal issues that probably should be treated primarily as health issues instead, there's a lot more that could be done. As the officer noted, the city/county health department runs a needle exchange program that provides sterile needles to people who inject illegal drugs... but state law wouldn't allow him to take the man to a hospital instead of the jail. Please note: effective March 21, 2010, I've stepped down from my prince.org Moderator position. |
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matt said: My friend and I decided to go to the Starbucks down the street, get something to drink, and play Scrabble. (As usual, she beat me.) When we first sat down, there was a 20-something man, apparently homeless, asleep at a table in the corner, with an almost-empty drink in front of him.
At some point during our game, he got up and grabbed my friend from behind with both hands on her neck/shoulders. I immediately stood up, firmly told him to back off, whipped out my cell phone, and told him I was calling 911. (The 911 call was fake... my immediate concern was getting him away from my friend.) He moved on to another table, sat down, and slumped over in the chair. I asked my friend if she actually wanted a 911 call, and she said yes. So the cops arrived. One of the officers handcuffed the guy and put him in the back of a police car. The other officer wanted to get victim/witness statements from us. The first question was whether my friend wanted to press charges. Well, she has a degree in social work, and she realized that this guy needed mental health care, not prosecution. But the officer explained that unfortunately, the Seattle Police Department has no such procedure -- all they do is bust people. So she reluctantly decided to press charges, as the man's behavior was very upsetting to her, and she said that the pain was a "5" or "6" on a scale of 1 to 10. I told the officer that I had witnessed the entire thing, from the man approaching her to grabbing her to sitting down at another table. I also said that I was happy to testify against him. So the officer down took my information. (The irony is that I was wearing my ACLU of Washington t-shirt, and the ACLU always tells people not to talk to the police, although they're referring to situations where you're potentially facing charges and are not just a witness.) If the Prosecutor decides to file charges, I'll likely be called as a witness. (They might even subpoena me, although it won't be necessary in order to get me to show up.) It'll be interesting, because I've elicited testimony from other people in the course of my work as a lawyer, but I've never given testimony myself. Two assaults in less than two years. First I got assaulted in July 2004 by a neighbor in the building where I used to live, and now my friend got assaulted on New Year's Day 2006. 
[Edited 1/2/06 6:48am] I'd have given him a beat down....just how I roll man....  | |
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I'm glad she wasn't hurt.
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matt said: I actually wonder if the Prosecutor's office will even file charges.
Update: It seems that the man might be charged. A paralegal from the Prosecutor's office called my friend today, told her they'd received the police report, and said they should have a status update in two weeks. Please note: effective March 21, 2010, I've stepped down from my prince.org Moderator position. |
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How long was the man in Starbucks? Is this a viable question in considering Starbucks role in this incident? | |
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He'd apparently been there for a few hours. My friend talked with the manager about how they handle homeless people who come in. Obviously, if a homeless person wants to buy a cup of coffee, he/she can do so and sit at a table like any other customer. But if a homeless person is just using the store as a warm place to sit/sleep, the manager said they usually don't do anything unless the person is disturbing customers, or taking up a table when the store is full and paying customers can't find a place to sit.
Perhaps they'll consider changing this apparently unofficial policy in light of the assault. (That's why the police officer suggested writing a letter to Starbucks.) While I understand the need for a warm and dry place, this city already has homeless shelters. Starbucks should stick to selling coffee. This issue would be relevant if my friend were going to sue Starbucks... but since she her only injury was brief pain, I don't think the potential recovery would make a lawsuit worthwhile. At best, I can see an award of nominal damages; e.g., $10. Furthermore, Washington state generally does not allow punitive damages (with a few exceptions, and I'm not aware of any that apply here), so there's no chance of a sympathetic jury deciding to award her a few million bucks. [Edited 1/5/06 4:31am] Please note: effective March 21, 2010, I've stepped down from my prince.org Moderator position. |
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